Semi-Pro Question (First Post)

[borgataboy7]

Hello Everyone. This is my first post so forgive me if I am breaking some kind of forum rule by posting in the wrong section.

About me, Ive been playing semi-professionally for 3 years, first as a limit player, then as an online SnG player, and most recently as a live/online NL cash game player (generally no higher than 2-5). I have just recently returned to my old game, which is limit poker. I still love to play it, but Im having doubts as to whether I can weather the variance storm.

I want to start playing 75% Limit Cash (4 tabling 5/10), and 25% 2-5 NL live and occasional online NL (4 table 1/2).

A major reason to switch back to limit is I feel I can manage 120 hours a month playing 4-table Limit, which will generate a bit over $2k in rakeback for me on fulltilt. Just the rakeback covers my monthly nut (and then some) right there playing only 4 hours a day. Whatever I choose to play above that is up to me.

I apologize, but I have a bankroll question. I dont have an accurate gauge of my winrate for limit anymore, as it has been a while, but I can safely lowball it at 1bb/100 hands. I know this is really low, but I estimate this way to be safe. Assuming this, and that I will have swings of 150 BB or so (again, just an estimate), what kind of bankroll would you recommend if I am 4-tabling?

Does the bankroll requirement increase if I am planning on multitabling?

I know I havent provided much info but I want to get the question out there because I could not find it in my searches (multitabling BR vs. Single Table), especially when it comes to a pro bankroll.

BTW, I have 4 months of expenses saved that are not calculated here. Thanks in advance for any thoughtful answers.

[emerson]

I have a question for you. I had a Full Tilt account before I ever knew anything about rake back. Is there any way I can get converted to a rake back account?

[borgataboy7]

generally not from what ive read. You can perhaps ask around in another thread (not trying to be rude, but its kind of a hijack)

[private joker]

Hi Borg,

Welcome to the forum. Generally 5/10 limit is discussed in the Small Stakes section, but I'll leave this here because it's not really strategy anyway, and we have many wise limit players (both live and online) who should be able to answer your question. But considering you're asking about multitabling online, you also might get some good responses in the Internet Gambling forum (also known as the Zoo, for a good reason).

Good luck with going pro.

[borgataboy7]

thanks for the reply. i decided to put it in Mid Stakes because I feel 5/10 online plays tougher than even 15/30 live in a lot of cases. Plus, the aspect of multitabling makes my bankroll requirements much higher possibly.

As far as "going pro", Im more of a semi-pro, as I make about double my "job" income playing poker (mainly from NL). However, poker isnt a career move for me unless I win some serious cash in a tournament and can play higher stakes. I also struggle with the fact that I dont have friends around I can discuss strategy and other aspects of the game with, so I rely on forums to discuss poker. Im afraid Id be left with no one to vent to when i have bad runs, so I keep my job for stability and a bit of a safety net. Im basically trying to build my bankroll to a really respectable level before Id consider quitting my job.

[jfk]

Traditional bankroll requirements were usually pegged at 300BB for limit play. Newer thinking, taking into account the toughness of internet games, puts the figure at 1000BB (assuming you're multitabling).

The recent 2+2 book, "Winning in Tough Hold 'em Games" advocates the 1000BB standard although the games that they describe are generally higher than 5/10 and often shorthanded. Mason's older title, "Gambling Theory" set the 300BB standard, though his advice predated internet play.

In today's playing environment a win rate of 1bb/100 in a online 5/10 limit hold 'em would be quite solid. It may be ambitious to count on this standard if you've not played LHE recently. Again, the "Tough Hold 'em" book here is informative as the authors describe break even stretches of 100K hands for winning players.

In my own experience, I've found a 300BB roll has been more than sufficient, though I play style that's lower variance (and possibly less profitable) than is typical.

[npknhldr]

Sounds like you plan on playing 30,000-40,000 hands a month, 2-4 tabling 5/10. That should be 1500-2000 in RB.

I think 1bb is optimistic, rather than low-balling. At least until you get used to playing. Are you a ring-game player? If not, then the short-handed limit forums are much more appropriate, as this is a de-facto B&M MLHE forum.

As for my two cents, I would recommend a 300BB bankroll only if you can reload at will. I would only feel comfortable playing 30k hands/month of 6max 5/10 on ftp with a $5,000 BR.

If you're coming back to limit, the above mentioned book is good reading. But again, if you're playing fairly laggy 6max (28/20 range), then 500BB for multitabling would be comfortable to not sweat short down-streaks. I have no clue how ring-games play on FTP, so no comment on that. Prob. lower bankroll is fine obv., like 300bb.

edit: 1000BB figure is for tough high variance games, and prob. overkill at 5/10. Plus, tying up 1000BB on ftp sucks cause it's a bitch withdrawing when you want too (I used to use neteller, up until a few months ago). but, it does allow you to play up to 15/30 to take shots when game selection is favourable.

[jomatty]

to answer your question as to how multi tabling will affect bankroll requirements, it should not affect the total bankroll needed. there may be a slight difference since you will have a slightly lower win rate per table, but this should have a fairly minor impact on your overall bankroll requirements.

[borgataboy7]

wow guys, thanks for all the thoughtful responses. The 1bb/100 estimate was really a guess as I am used to hearing the old 1 BB/hr winrate goal, and figured 1bb/100 would be easily attained.
Anyhow, Im playing purely fullring games, 9-handed on FTP. If I play live limit, it would have to be a game like 10/20 to see a comparable winrate I think (again just a guess), but I believe live limit games have much more variance due to the lower quality of players. Same seems to be true in NL for me..
As for the bankroll, Id like to dedicate 6k ish, since Id say my variance is still going to be a bit higher than I'd like. Im currently working on toning down my aggression some, although Im happy to say I seem to be value betting quite well.
Cashing out is kind of a pain now without Neteller, so I just have checks sent and that seems to be working just fine.
Im not abandoning NL, as I still feel its my strongest game. Problem for me is that Im a bit underolled for the good live NL games (I like to have 30+ buyins for a serious bankroll), and one bad day can really hurt. Im trying to build up my bankroll until its beefed up enough to let me play without fear. I feel that with rakeback of about 2k a month, in addition to a little over breakeven limit play, and a small steady income from NL, I should be able to save enough in a few months. Thankfully Fulltilt calculates rake by total players, not individual contribution, so I can play rocktight ABC if I need to and probably still come out ahead each month.

Thats the plan anyhow. I dont really have the nerve to make the fulltime leap without a safety net of 30+buyins. Thanks again for the input.

[borgataboy7]

also, heres another question for you all. Its often been repeated that you should not risk more than 5% of your bankroll in a day...Is this some kind of psychological airbag, or is this 5% rule referring to each table you are playing? Certainly if Im in a game and get felted, I will reload if the game is good, which would mean Id be risking more than 5% in some cases...