Someone please explain the instant call...

[jenu18]

Final table HU.
This was an instant call from 10kclub on my river bluff...

Full Tilt Poker Game #2688130312: .COM ME Giveaway Rd 1 (20490163), Table 15 - 5000/10000 Ante 1000 - No Limit Hold'em - 1:14:44 ET - 2007/06/17
Seat 3: Hero (200,544)
Seat 4: 10Kclub(271,956)
Hero antes 1,000
10Kclub antes 1,000
10Kclub posts the small blind of 5,000
Hero posts the big blind of 10,000
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Jd 4h]
10Kclub calls 5,000
Hero checks
*** FLOP *** [3d 2s Js]
Hero checks
10Kclub bets 10,000
Hero raises to 20,000
10Kclub calls 10,000
*** TURN *** [3d 2s Js] [Qs]
Hero checks
10Kclub bets 10,000
Hero calls 10,000
*** RIVER *** [3d 2s Js Qs] [Ts]
Hero checks
10Kclub bets 10,000
Hero raises to 159,544, and is all in
10Kclub calls 149,544
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Hero shows [Jd 4h] a pair of Jacks
10Kclub shows [Kd 3s] a flush, Queen high
10Kclub wins the pot (401,088) with a flush, Queen high
Hero stands up
10Kclub stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 401,088 | Rake 0
Board: [3d 2s Js Qs Ts]
Seat 3: Hero (big blind) showed [Jd 4h] and lost with a pair of Jacks
Seat 4: 10Kclub (small blind) showed [Kd 3s] and won (401,088) with a flush, Queen high

[Civi]

Am I right that you checked the flop after getting top pair? You then check raise him. That should tell him you've made top pair...right.

The thing is with your stacks you didn't check raise him enough. You didn't threaten his stack at all! So maybe he thinks your check raise is weak and is just a bluff with an Ace high. As he has hit he calls. Hoping no doubt to hit two pair.

I think you played to weakly. You've donked off all your chips with top pair. He didn't believe you at the start of the hand and doesn't at the end.

Get your money in up front.

[Nomad101]

If I may offer mho ( I am a beginner myself ): even though you hit top pair, he had the backdoor flush draw showing up, in addition to what Civi wrote about the two pair. If I judge this correctly, that type of player would have called your checkraise up to 50k at least.
Plus, honestly, going All-in without a spade with 4 on the Board I think is a bit wild.
I would have played this slow postflop, and make him think after the turn.

[Cry Me A River]

Use a hand history convertor next time, please!

http://www.legopoker.com/hh/index.php

Flop play is pretty terrible. Either lead out or make a real checkraise. The min-checklaise is useless. He prolly thinks his 1pair is good.

And then your turn play, WTF? You either need to follow-up on your checkraise by leading OR fold because you think you're beat.

Your river bluff is spew. You risked 160K to win an 80K pot on the hope he doesn't have a decent spade. If you're going to bluff this river, lead out for 1/2 pot or maybe 3/4 pot.

You pretty much played this hand as badly as possible.

[bobbyi]

He thought you were bluffing.

[ChrisV]

Your opponent thought, not unreasonably, that if you had a spade you would have bet for value. If you check a spade on that river he will check behind if he doesn't have a spade, so you have to bet it yourself.

The river CRAI is either a bluff or a poorly played ace spades (presumably you aren't going to CRAI with something like the Qs, that's insanity), and he thought a bluff was more likely. Note also that it is hard for you to have a hand with an ace in it since you checked preflop. So I basically agree with his call.

[KenProspero]

I don't understand your flop play.

I can make arguments for a bet -- maybe 3/4 of the pot or so on the flop.
I can make arguments for calling (though don't think I'd believe them).
I can make arguments for a real check raise -- after he mini-raises, go over the top 30-40,000.

As it stands, your hand is vulnerable to either a flush draw or an overcard, so one way or the other, I think you have to make it 'wrong' for Villian to call.

I don't see the point in a mini-check raise here. (To be honest, I don't see the point in almost any circumstance I can come up with).

[quirkasaurus]

now..... if he had the ace of spades, this of course,
would've been a dynamite hand, yes ?

I think the insta-call was more "wth, if he has it,
he has it." The ol' "it's either a bluff or nothing"
kind of thinking.

but.... how many of us would've called that all-in
with a 3 ???? i'm thinking that call was kind of
wreckless, myself...

[KenProspero]

Part of the problem with the hand, is that the description doesn't work.

OP starts by saying Hero is Seat 3, 10Kclub is Seat 4, and Button is Seat 4. Then OP has 10Kclub posting the SB and Hero posting the BB. This doesn't work if Hero is on the right of 10Kclub, and certainly doesn't work if 10Kclub is the Button. After the Flop, Hero acted (checked) before 10Kclub -- again impossible if 10Kclub is sb and hero is BB

etc.

Let's try to fix the mess -- assume Hero is Seat 3 (sb), 10Kclub is Seat 4 bb), which makes Seat 2 the Button.

Now -- let's look at the hand from the other side, you're 10Kclub and Hero now Becomes Villian muahahahahaha (come to the Dark Side, Luke).

Pre-flop, you're bb and dealt Kd 3s.

checked to sb who completes, you check.

Flop. 3d, 2s, Js

SB checks
BB Mini-bets
SB Mini-raises
BB calls.

Turn Qs

SB checks
BB Mini-Bets
Hero calls.

River Ts

SB checks,
BB mini-bets
SB All in
BB -- You?

Question for the Group -- what range of hands do you put SB on?

Do you think a flush is possible?
Are the chances of the Flush great enough for you to fold your (most likely) under flush?
Is a straight possible? Something like K9o.

Re-reading and thinking, unless I have a helluva read, I suspect a bluff, but an not confident enough to call it.

[jenu18]

Thanks to everyone who responded...

@KenProspero

You misread the hand in your second post. There's no seat 2. Its HU between Hero (seat 3 BB) and 10Kclub (seat 4 SB +button). Heres a good link to the hand:

http://www.pokerhand.org/?1186451

I minimum checked raised cuz 10Kclub was extremely loose (minimum betting every flop) and minimum raising was sufficient to make him fold in previous hands.

@quirkasaurus

I agree it was a reckless call and he was probably thinking exactly the way you put it.


@ChrisV

the 'As' is exactly what i was hoping he thought i had. I assumed he would think i had it because i was trapping with Aces several times before that. I thought i had him convinced i like slow playing aces. You're probably right on the value bet part. It would have been more convincing than my all in.

@Cry Me A River & @Civi

Thanks for the link. I dunno about the terrible part since like i said he was folding to minimum raises before and i always tended to have the winner when i minimum raised previous hands.


Thanks for helping a noob out
cheers..