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#291
06-16-2007, 01:08 PM
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Re: Why are so many college students far-left liberals or socialists?
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[ QUOTE ] Also, you dodged the question again. 32k, 64k -> either way, did you pay it off? [/ QUOTE ] How would he know? This is *exactly* what I've been asking you: at what point is the obligation fufilled? [/ QUOTE ] Did his net, total taxes paid by age 23, assuming ALL of it went to funding his education and ONLY his education, equal or exceed 32,000 (or 64,000, or whatever other figure he wanted to stipulate) dollars? 
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#292
06-16-2007, 01:09 PM
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Re: Why are so many college students far-left liberals or socialists?
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Is paying taxes tacit support of the war? Hey, if you didn't like it you wouldn't be funding it! [/ QUOTE ] I predict this question will be dodged. [/ QUOTE ] Henry David Thoreau didn't pay taxes in protest of the Mexican-American War and slavery. So, some people would view paying taxes as tacit consent. [/ QUOTE ] I don't know if declining to do something as a protest *requires* that one believe that doing it equals tacit consent.
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#293
06-16-2007, 01:10 PM
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Re: Why are so many college students far-left liberals or socialists?
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The hypocrisy takes on a different cast, though, when ACists start actively seeking out subsidies, and that's why I've deliberately given examples that are nothing like driving on public roads to get to work or paying taxes to avoid jail time. There's a world of difference between: 1. "wanting to stay out of prison" and 2. "applying to state schools in preference to private ones"; or 3. "applying for government grants and loans"; or to 4. "seeking out, applying for, and accepting jobs at public-sector or largely subsidized institutions, EG state schools, government contractors", Congress, etc. No. 1 above is about pain avoidance and practical necessity. Nos. 2-4 are not. They're about wanting (decidedly not needing) something you believe is wrong, and going ahead and taking it anyway. I chose my examples specifically because they are not defensible with arguments of "Well I don't really have any practical choice now, do I?". (Of course, that hasn't stopped various ACists from making ludicrous claims like "You made me go to state school at gunpoint!!1", but then, what did I expect, right?) -J [/ QUOTE ] So, can you give some examples of *me* doing 2-3? I mean, since I became an ACist? [/ QUOTE ] What possible difference could that make? Remember that this entire subthread came about because I asked if a poster was as disenchanted with ACists attending state schools as he was with communists eating Big Macs, not because I said "PVN likes handouts". Based on your response, should I assume you now see my point? [/ QUOTE ] What difference could that make? You keep saying I'm a hypocrite. I don't think it's too much to ask what you're basing that on, considering you've already exempted class 1. [/ QUOTE ] I exempted class 1? Really? Show me.
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#294
06-16-2007, 01:10 PM
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Re: Why are so many college students far-left liberals or socialists?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Also, you dodged the question again. 32k, 64k -> either way, did you pay it off? [/ QUOTE ] How would he know? This is *exactly* what I've been asking you: at what point is the obligation fufilled? [/ QUOTE ] Did his net, total taxes paid by age 23, assuming ALL of it went to funding his education and ONLY his education, equal or exceed 32,000 (or 64,000, or whatever other figure he wanted to stipulate) dollars? [/ QUOTE ] Probably not. But the net, total payments to the car dealer by the time I drove off the lot didn't equal $30,000, either.
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#295
06-16-2007, 01:12 PM
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Re: Why are so many college students far-left liberals or socialists?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Also, you dodged the question again. 32k, 64k -> either way, did you pay it off? [/ QUOTE ] How would he know? This is *exactly* what I've been asking you: at what point is the obligation fufilled? [/ QUOTE ] Did his net, total taxes paid by age 23, assuming ALL of it went to funding his education and ONLY his education, equal or exceed 32,000 (or 64,000, or whatever other figure he wanted to stipulate) dollars? [/ QUOTE ] Probably not. But the net, total payments to the car dealer by the time I drove off the lot didn't equal $30,000, either. [/ QUOTE ] You don't understand. The standard I'm applying, "did he pay all by age 23", was the standard HE SUGGESTED. I'm asking if he lived up to, not my standard, but his own. And of course, he's dodging the question.
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#296
06-16-2007, 01:15 PM
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Re: Why are so many college students far-left liberals or socialists?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Also, you dodged the question again. 32k, 64k -> either way, did you pay it off? [/ QUOTE ] How would he know? This is *exactly* what I've been asking you: at what point is the obligation fufilled? [/ QUOTE ] Did his net, total taxes paid by age 23, assuming ALL of it went to funding his education and ONLY his education, equal or exceed 32,000 (or 64,000, or whatever other figure he wanted to stipulate) dollars? [/ QUOTE ] Probably not. But the net, total payments to the car dealer by the time I drove off the lot didn't equal $30,000, either. [/ QUOTE ] PS: You dodged the question.
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#297
06-16-2007, 01:42 PM
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Re: Why are so many college students far-left liberals or socialists?
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I took possession of a $30,000 car before I gave the previous owner $30,000. Am I a hypocrite? A cheat? [/ QUOTE ] I can't say whether or not you're a cheat; I do make you for a hypocrite, yes, but not because of the above transaction. [/ QUOTE ] More question dodging. [/ QUOTE ] Explain precisely how I did not answer your question. PVN's question: Am I a hypocrite or a cheat for doing X? Jogger's answer: No, though I believe you are a hypocrite for other reasons. [/ QUOTE ] You, of course, missed the entire point. Your "$32,000/$40,000" tangent was predicated on someone accepting $X of benefits before he had paid $X in taxes. You again answered some other question: "not because of the above transaction." You're bringing in a bunch of other stuff outside of the proposed hypothetical. [ QUOTE ] "Having seen the answer I provided laid out as above, do you now admit that you were either deliberately lying or simply wrong when you claimed I dodged your question? And if so, which was it: a lie, or an error?" I'll await your response. Let's see who dodges. [/ QUOTE ] No, I was neither lying or wrong. [/ QUOTE ] You are quite simply full of [censored]. You said I didn't answer your question. As is obvious, I quite plainly did answer it. But rather than owning up and admitting that you were either wrong or lying, you're simply lying (again). Trying to use the commentary I gave <u>along with</u> - <u>not instead of</u> - my answer, as "evidence" that I somehow didn't answer, is beyond vacuous: calling this line of your "reasoning" intellectual dishonesty wouldn't begin to do it justice. (In fact I'd feel like I was abusing the word "intellectual" in order to glorify a much simpler brand of highly stupid dishonesty.) PVN: hey bro, do you like Burger King or McDonalds better? Jogger: Burger King. Wendy's is pretty good too. PVN: you didn't answer the question! I do have to give you your due, though. You did prove me wrong on one score: rather than dodging my question, you came right out and lied about it. Congratulations. Well played.
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#298
06-16-2007, 01:47 PM
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Re: Why are so many college students far-left liberals or socialists?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Also, you dodged the question again. 32k, 64k -> either way, did you pay it off? [/ QUOTE ] How would he know? This is *exactly* what I've been asking you: at what point is the obligation fufilled? [/ QUOTE ] Did his net, total taxes paid by age 23, assuming ALL of it went to funding his education and ONLY his education, equal or exceed 32,000 (or 64,000, or whatever other figure he wanted to stipulate) dollars? [/ QUOTE ] Probably not. But the net, total payments to the car dealer by the time I drove off the lot didn't equal $30,000, either. [/ QUOTE ] PS: You dodged the question. [/ QUOTE ] If he received 32,000 worth of tuition and his TOTAL taxes paid are less than 32,000, he can be absolutely sure he did not pay off his debt, unless there has been significant deflation.
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#299
06-16-2007, 05:30 PM
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Re: Why are so many college students far-left liberals or socialists?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Also, you dodged the question again. 32k, 64k -> either way, did you pay it off? [/ QUOTE ] How would he know? This is *exactly* what I've been asking you: at what point is the obligation fufilled? [/ QUOTE ] Did his net, total taxes paid by age 23, assuming ALL of it went to funding his education and ONLY his education, equal or exceed 32,000 (or 64,000, or whatever other figure he wanted to stipulate) dollars? [/ QUOTE ] Probably not. But the net, total payments to the car dealer by the time I drove off the lot didn't equal $30,000, either. [/ QUOTE ] PS: You dodged the question. [/ QUOTE ] If he received 32,000 worth of tuition and his TOTAL taxes paid are less than 32,000, he can be absolutely sure he did not pay off his debt, unless there has been significant deflation. [/ QUOTE ] Am I missing something here? Don't parents often pay for (some or all of) their offspring's college bills? Therefore, shouldn't the question be, have the parents' taxes exceeded the cost of the student's college subsidy? In most cases this answer would be Yes.
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#300
06-16-2007, 05:37 PM
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Re: Why are so many college students far-left liberals or socialists?
[ QUOTE ]
You are quite simply full of [censored]. You said I didn't answer your question. As is obvious, I quite plainly did answer it. But rather than owning up and admitting that you were either wrong or lying, you're simply lying (again). [/ QUOTE ] Roll the video tape: The question: [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Let's say I voluntarily buy into the statist propaganda. Do I get to stop paying taxes towards education once I repay the $32,000? Yes or no, please. [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] Your "answer," minus the "hard math" tangent: [ QUOTE ] As far as the rest, if it were up to me, I would say that if you opt out of the "government system," which would certainly be an all-or-nothing choice, you ought to both get to stop paying taxes AND get to stop using all benefits of the system. IE no use of public sewers, roads, city/state/federal cops, no education, etc. [/ QUOTE ] That DOES NOT answer the question *I asked*. He *already* consumed the education. You changed the assumptions of the question, making up a different question. [ QUOTE ] PVN: hey bro, do you like Burger King or McDonalds better? Jogger: Burger King. Wendy's is pretty good too. PVN: you didn't answer the question! [/ QUOTE ] Except you only said "wendy's is pretty good." It's all right there, scroll back up. (personal attack, lying about me lying, snipped)
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