Would it ever be wise to lay down pocket aces (A,A) pre-flop ?!!?

[Krow]

I think you severly missunderstand me.

It has been my philosophy that in many tournaments getting involved in too many coinflips puts your ass on the line for getting eliminated, while you may like to belive it is smart to try to double up every chance and in some instances it is you get in a tournament engageing in too many coinflip scenarios may not be a smart venture. The fact is that your goal in tournaments is to get into the money, byt makeing smart decisions, so how many coinflips would you get into before you are eliminated and taken out. I'm sorry you disagree with my philosophy but you don't have to be an ass.

And on your second point I know that gambling is a fundamental part of the game and you misunderstand what I mean a good poker player will make wise gambles with assumed odds in their favor or pot odds in there favor, there is a line that seperates a poker player from the type of player that I call a gambler (not a serious poker player but someone who treats poker like any other casino game, a draw chaser and luck seeker, that is what I mean by gambler, sorry for the misunderstanding) So I agree a poker player is a gambler, but an educated gambler hopefully you see the difference.

And also the odds edge favors the long run because like in the coinflip scenario, even committing to an all-in in tournament scenario even with 60/40 still puts you at risk of being knocked out and doing it multiple times is even more risky, because in a tournament you are trying to stay alive. And yes the "expectaion" is positive but the outcome is not always in fact the out come is negative 48% of the time in that case of 52/48 which makes it more relevent in a cash game scenario as oppossed to a tournament as in my example. For example you can treat an odds analysis like this in that example of 52/48 "if the odds matched perfect" over the course of of one hundered single hands you would win 52 times and lose 48, so in a tournament it would seem that the more you make such a risk, say three times the greater the risk for getting eliminated. Also you may point to the single-event doesn't dictate post event but you know that a coinflip more often than not won't come out in your favor 100 times in a row and maybe not even 10 times in a row and it only takes 1 out of however many coinflips risked to knock you out.

And also I have heard of implied odds it is a strategy I put to use every hand applicable. And that was in the fisrt example as pot odds are more realvent to it as I stated below even as a 40% underdog you are getting five to 1 on your money so even at 20% it would be profitable. Also in the above scenario implied odds are irrelevent as all the players are all-in leaving no guessing as to what will come on a latter street, because it is all in (save for the first better but even then pot odds and not implied odds far out weighs it).

Also on that note I realsised that there is no time to fold aces save for those extreme tournament situations listed below. I made the post to hear reactions on how different players would approach the question (I guess I found it raises blind hostility). And if their was a good scenario to which I found two, thank you.

Also you should read on before you blindly attacking someone. It is immature. And if you disagree with my coinflip logic after this all too detailed explaintion please feel free to reply tactfully though.

Also I know that this subject is "beaten to death" don't waste everyones time by posting that, try to stick the the question if interested or to argue for or against my coinflip logic in tournament situations, once again I am a little new to these forums and was unaware just how popular this question really is.

[Spechel EDD]

you try to act smart by typing up a lot of words

[tarheeljks]

i think the only time this scenario has any merit is if you were on the bubble.

[duh]

You realzie that when 5 people go allin infront of you, you're getting 5:1, and u only need 16.6% equity.

When you have 40% equity, ya u bustout of the tournament 60% of the time. Who cares. 40% of the time however you don't double, tripple, or even quadruple up. You 5x up your stack, and you can RUN OVER THE WHOLE DAMN TOURNAMENT.

[filsteal]

OP,

You were wrong and you looked stupid, but it's not the end of the world and it doesn't make you a bad person.

Just let it go.

Sincerely,
filsteal

[Kal With A K]

Not sure if this has been discussed yet, but I would fold the aces in a STT. More than likely, 6 of the 10 players would be eliminated, guaranteeing you a payout. While winning would be nice, putting you in third place, you'll probably lose about 70% of the time.

In a cash game, on the other hand, you've got one hell of an expected value on this hand. Let's say the blinds are $1-$2, and that you haven't got anyone at the table covered. We'll say you have $150. Your expected value is ($150)(7)(.3) - ($150)(.7), or $210. So really, you'll make $210 per hand on this in the long run.

In a tournament, when you fold, you're very likely to guarantee yourself to be in the money. In a cash game, by calling, you have a positive EV by calling.

[tarheeljks]

haven't run any numbers, but i figure you will win about 45-50% of the time. folding may guarantee a payout, but calling and winning puts you in excellent position to win the tournament.