Is it a Palestinian Civil War at this point?

[Howard Beale]

Although it was inevitable that this thread would get hijacked to a degree I'd like to keep it on topic if at all possible.

You apparently are very familiar w/ the situation and I'd like to ask you:

Is Fatah strong enough on the West Bank to withstand a Hamas attack? What is the likelihood that the entire Fatah leadership flees to whatever safety they can reach? If the reports of Hamas summarily executing prisoners is true I'd assume that the Fatah leaders must be making plans to do just that.

[Goater]

Yes, I think Fatah is strong enough in the West Bank, but it would be disasterous if Hamas and Fatah repeat the violence there. Hamas are more powerful in Gaza than Fatah is strong in the West Bank regarding the support of the respective populations. The West Bank is much bigger and more spread out compared to the small and densely populated Gaza and Hamas could possibly neutralise the strenght difference. They also did well in the elections in a number of West Bank cities, demonstrating that despite the lack of a sizable military force in the West Bank, they do have some public support there. But I think that they will do everything in their powers to prevent this scenario. Hopefully Gaza is a show of strength and will be enough for Hamas, at least for now.

There have already been reports that Fatah leaders are asking Israel for help in facilitating their exit from Gaza. I dont know what the response has been.

It seems that (depending on how quickly the violence in Gaza is reduced) that there is a high probability that the Fatah leadership will largely leave Gaza. I suppose they may be able to come to some sort of agreement for the sake of "unity", however as this is a myth, im not sure that they will be capable of this. Could happen though but it would be only a token gesture. Hamas and Fatah know who controls Gaza.

Fatah wont leave the West Bank unless they are forced out. Hamas dont have much military power there and thats whats important in the short term.

Its been reported that both sides have executed prisoners. Fatah have already begun taking actions in the West Bank - at least 36 Hamas people have been taken into custody in the last few hours.

[Gamblor]

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Also reported is the execution of fatah prisoners by Hamas in front of their families.

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Posted in another thread

Scroll down to the video to see this.

[iron81]

Chicago Tribune

Its offifical, Hamas is in control of Gaza. Hamas forces have seized the remaining Fatah controlled security facilities and Abbas's Gaza compound.

Today is a new world order in the Mideast. For the first time since the fall of the Taliban, there is a regime in power that openly supports terrorism.

I blame Israel for keeping their boot on the necks of the Palestinians: denying them the money, food and travel necessary for them to survive. I also blame Bush for openly supporting Israel at the expense of the Palestinians instead of acting as a neutral broker. Israel and Bush will now reap what they have sewn with a militant regime on their door step.

[Gamblor]

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I blame Israel

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obv.

As close to animals as these people are, you are 100% wrong. These people are still human beings who make their own decisions.

Why does everyone ignore this basic fact: If the Arabs had demanded their government reject terrorism they could have lived in peace and quiet and been economically booming 15 years ago. Instead, they choose to continue to support governments that choose terrorism.

[Coco]

[ QUOTE ]
Chicago Tribune

Its offifical, Hamas is in control of Gaza. Hamas forces have seized the remaining Fatah controlled security facilities and Abbas's Gaza compound.

Today is a new world order in the Mideast. For the first time since the fall of the Taliban, there is a regime in power that openly supports terrorism.

I blame Israel for keeping their boot on the necks of the Palestinians: denying them the money, food and travel necessary for them to survive. I also blame Bush for openly supporting Israel at the expense of the Palestinians instead of acting as a neutral broker. Israel and Bush will now reap what they have sewn with a militant regime on their door step.

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Guess I was wrong.

[Howard Beale]

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Chicago Tribune

Its offifical, Hamas is in control of Gaza. Hamas forces have seized the remaining Fatah controlled security facilities and Abbas's Gaza compound.

Today is a new world order in the Mideast. For the first time since the fall of the Taliban, there is a regime in power that openly supports terrorism.

I blame Israel for keeping their boot on the necks of the Palestinians: denying them the money, food and travel necessary for them to survive. I also blame Bush for openly supporting Israel at the expense of the Palestinians instead of acting as a neutral broker. Israel and Bush will now reap what they have sewn with a militant regime on their door step.

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Guess I was wrong.

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You knew you were wrong when you posted. There are people hard-wired to blame Israel. No matter how depraved the Palestinians prove to be (time and time again) it is, of course, Israel's fault and Israel's fault alone.

However, I didn't want this thread to become another Israel v. Palestinian thread. I just wanted to know if it was all-out civil war at last and if Fatah could survive it. Frankly, I thought that their entire leadership would head to Europe to live off the stolen money but it looks like they can hang on to the West Bank for the time being.

What kind of hell Gaza is going to become I can't even guess.

[Felix_Nietzsche]

My main disappointment is Fatah didn't put up a better fight.

When I saw the Palestinians were murdering each other, I grabbed a bag of popcorn cheering both sides to kill each other. My feeling was analogous to a football "over" bet where you win the bet when the score exceeds a certain number determined by the bookie. I was happy that Hamas was "scoring" but Fatah was a huge disappointment. Those Fatah guys act brave when they are killing unarmed Israelis but when the other side has guns...they run away like a bunch of women.

Oh well, it is not every day you can see two groups of terrorist scumbags killing each other. I guess that is some solace.... Fatah still dominates the West Bank so maybe they will send in reinforcements and the killing can go on at more extreme levels. Come of Fatah, paradise awaits!!! Go Team Go!!! Go team Go!!!

Gimme a K! Kayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!
Gimme an I! Eyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!
Gimme a L! Ellllllllllllllllllllll!!
Gimme anoher L! Ellllllllllllllll!!!!
What does that spell? Killlllllllll !!
Go Fatah Go!!! lets get some points on the board...

[adios]

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I blame Israel for keeping their boot on the necks of the Palestinians: denying them the money, food and travel necessary for them to survive. I also blame Bush for openly supporting Israel at the expense of the Palestinians instead of acting as a neutral broker. Israel and Bush will now reap what they have sewn with a militant regime on their door step.

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I Predicted People Would Say This

I wrote earlier in this thread:

The U.S. and Israel will be blamed for not supporting the elected Hamas government eventually IMO.

Shame on Israel for not supporting an organization that openly declared that they want to wipe Israel off the face of the planet and has never wavered from this stance and has shown that they mean it time and time again. How dare Israel not support an organization that is supported by a government that wants to develop nukes to wipe them out. Go figure.

[SNOWBALL]

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I wrote earlier in this thread:

The U.S. and Israel will be blamed for not supporting the elected Hamas government eventually IMO.

Shame on Israel for not supporting an organization that openly declared that they want to wipe Israel off the face of the planet and has never wavered from this stance and has shown that they mean it time and time again. How dare Israel not support an organization that is supported by a government that wants to develop nukes to wipe them out. Go figure.



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Shame on Israel for intensifying it's efforts to steal almost every inch they can possibly grab from the palestinians for the last forty years, and murdering innocent people to do it. Shame on you for demonizing the entire palestinian people and denying their sovereignty. Shame on Fatah for being so weak as to sign the terrible Oslo accords, and being so corrupt that Hamas appeared to be a decent alternative. Shame on All of the suicide bombers and anyone on either side who attacks non-military targets. Shame on every single Israeli settler for placing their materal greed and religious fanaticism above the cause of peace, and above the lives and rights of the palestinian people.

There's a lot of shame to go around.