60-120 hand: Outtricking the Trickster?

[Jeffage]

Only if they're completely asleep at the wheel - it would make no sense for you to play a set like this, you would just pound the piss out of it or checkraise the turn, etc. You wouldn't do the superman thing on the turn b/c you don't know BB will checkraise.

Also, as played, it seems like BB definitely could have a straight or set if he correctly puts button on a big pair. So you need to hit to win in this huge pot - why charge yourself the max with one card to come. What if they both call? You plan to bluff river?

Jeff

[Aves]

mike l. is right, i don't think anyone would play a set/straight like this, assuming that is what you are trying to represent. Why would anyone take a high risk of only getting 1 bet in on the turn with a set/straight by just calling buttons bet (esp. with 2 flush draws out).

If either villain can read hands at all, they'll be confused; and when people are confused, but have something they can showdown, they usually do.

[AragornX151]

I agree this is a flop cap. It's a positive equity play even if you're against AA, and against KK type hands (I.E. your ace is live), it's a HUGE money gainer.

As played, I think it's a pretty shaky play against anyone who's moderately awake. As mentioned, this would be a pretty awful way to play a set on such a draw heavy board. It's also hard to imagine there's much fold equity here.

Of course, the pot is so big that even as a 4-1 dog or so, you're not killing yourself by just getting more money in the pot anyway.

[Clarkmeister]

You people are again making the mistake that what you think of here, after minutes of reflection. And it doesn't matter whether you think it's logical or not to play a straight this way, all that matters is the fact that there is one read that everyone in the world makes in the heat of the moment when someone call-3-bets the turn: Nuts.

Then you add in the fact that it's not some whackjob making the play, it's a pretty tight dude, all they are thinking when this happens is "I'm drawing dead". And the ones that clearly can't be, are ready to fold any river that doesn't make them a 5-card hand.

Y'all are tainted by the fact that you know his hand.

"I raise the button with QQ. Flop is 893. Tighty Whitey Andy bets into the field which means draw or monster. Raise to me and I 3-bet, TW Andy calls, raiser calls. Turn is a Jack. I bet, TW Andy calls, BB raises, I hesitate and call, Andy now check 3-bets(!). BB calls and now I ______ ?

Spur of the moment, 85% of players are trained and wired to believe that this pattern means they are totally effed and they fold without even thinking about it.

[mike l.]

""I raise the button with QQ. Flop is 893. Tighty Whitey Andy bets into the field which means draw or monster. Raise to me and I 3-bet, TW Andy calls, raiser calls. Turn is a Jack. I bet, TW Andy calls, BB raises, I hesitate and call, Andy now check 3-bets(!). BB calls and now I ______ ?"

now youre making the mistake of thinking button (or bb) think on the level of your average poster. they dont. their thinking is more like:

"me have overpair! me call!"

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
""I raise the button with QQ. Flop is 893. Tighty Whitey Andy bets into the field which means draw or monster. Raise to me and I 3-bet, TW Andy calls, raiser calls. Turn is a Jack. I bet, TW Andy calls, BB raises, I hesitate and call, Andy now check 3-bets(!). BB calls and now I ______ ?"

now youre making the mistake of thinking button (or bb) think on the level of your average poster. they dont. their thinking is more like:

"me have overpair! me call!"

[/ QUOTE ]

No, even idiots know that he's tight and even idiots are hard-wired to know that this turn action = the nuts.

[Clarkmeister]

Plus, add in the fact that the pot is ginormous and the play costs him less than a bet to make and if it works wins him the whole pot. This isn't particularly close.

[andyfox]

And she's not an idiot. She plays similarly to the way she thinks I play (be nice, guys). Which means, right then and there, Andy has to have her overpair drawing dead. Never mind there's still a 3rd guy in the hand.

[Nate tha\\\' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
Plus, add in the fact that the pot is ginormous and the play costs him less than a bet to make and if it works wins him the whole pot. This isn't particularly close.

[/ QUOTE ]

It costs him more than a bet when BB caps. Another small issue is that when BB doesn't have the nuts, he likely holds or taints two of hero's outs.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Plus, add in the fact that the pot is ginormous and the play costs him less than a bet to make and if it works wins him the whole pot. This isn't particularly close.

[/ QUOTE ]

It costs him more than a bet when BB caps.

[/ QUOTE ]

BB doesn't cap after tanking before raising.