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#11
06-09-2007, 06:07 PM
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Re: stars .25/.50
[ QUOTE ]
You call with 66 to hit a set. [/ QUOTE ] This is what I was referring to. If I play the b/b/b line, then I question whether or not it's even worth playing 66 in the sb under normal circumstances. [ QUOTE ] How are you going to collect the 10x pf-investment [/ QUOTE ] The bet-bet-line leads to 8sb < 10sb, so I guess I couldn't collect 10sb. If we play the 66s I still think we should check the flop. 
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#12
06-09-2007, 06:17 PM
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Re: stars .25/.50
meek, your check/call then checkraise the turn is basically the standard play for most players (including fish) and screams SET. Whenever you checkraise at this sort of limit it basically screams monster. betting out actually disguises your hand and lets you get in many bets before your opposition clues in.
one problem with hand 1 is that you dont know where the bet is coming from and to be frank, it is possible that everyone checks through the turn...I always laugh a little when i see people try the turn CR move and it backfires and gets checked through. [ QUOTE ] If you knew he had the ace, the play here seems correct. If he doesn't have the ace, what is he calling the flop with if you bet from SB? [/ QUOTE ] youll be surprised at what calls the flop. most 25c/50c players just call call call cos thats what they do...please follow this rule "bet your set" for the next month and I bet you see that you still get many bets paid off. [ QUOTE ] I was lucky to have him twopair his KJ on the turn, which is why I think he called the check raise on the turn. [/ QUOTE ] results dont matter in posted hands but in this case it just goes to show that even with 2 pair your CR basically stopped everyone else betting. also that 2 pair may well raise you on the turn allowing you to 3 bet because your set is hidden. trust us...dont get fancy, bet your sets if you like money
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#14
06-09-2007, 06:45 PM
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Re: stars .25/.50
[ QUOTE ]
One last thing, if someone hits their gutshot, won't they let you know? You can run from the three-bet after you c/r no? [/ QUOTE ] I hope you arent thinking folding here. That would be a big mistake. [ QUOTE ] How are you going to collect the 10x pf-investment [/ QUOTE ] by betting and getting raised so you can reraise. (note: this should be considered GENERAL advice and not just for this set hand). Im not trying to insult you here because I understand you are here to learn and you have found a great place to learn. Posters in the micros are very knowledgable and can help you get good but you need to be accepting of peoples advice. Not being willing to listen to good advice when you get it will hold back your development. If you read something that you dont agree with then by all means speak up and perhaps your thought process can be corrected or clarified. In this case, its good that you are thinking about this and odds of hitting your set etc but your thinking on how to play your sets is not right. see previous replies so stick with it and keeping asking yourself WHY we make certain moves. cya in future threads. ozi.
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#15
06-09-2007, 11:06 PM
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Re: stars .25/.50
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not convinced of the bet bet bet line for a set. I think hitting your set is 7.5 smallbets:1. If the utg folds after your flop bet, you are profiting 8 small bets, making your profit essentially 1 sb = .25 cents when figuring all the times you miss (assuming villain mp3 has ace). Since the rake is .1 cents, you are then making .15 cents. This is of course assuming he has an ace. When he doesn't and they fold you are def. not making your 7.5 small bets? [/ QUOTE ] You've got the odds concept confused, methinks. When we talk about necessary odds, those refer to what you're getting NOW, not what you will make in the future. Future odds are called "implied odds" and are an ADDITION to the odds you currently face. In this hand, you've got two limpers and the BB in for one already preflop, and you're halfway there. You're getting odds of 3½-½ or 7-1. If you think you need to have 7½-1 to play a pocket pair profitably for set value, that means you need to make up just one half of one SB in implied odds at any point postflop, and I can all but guarantee that will happen no matter what hits the board with four players in to see the flop. We use 10-1 because your set won't always win, but that means you need to earn 3 SB in implied odds postflop. You bet, everyone calls: you're there.
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#16
06-10-2007, 09:00 PM
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Re: stars .25/.50
hey marchron,
for some reason i calculated the odds assuming i paid one sb, when really i payed 3/5 of one, which means I need only 6 sb. thanks for the advice. I guess similar considerations go into playing 66-22 on the button as well? tm
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#17
06-10-2007, 09:15 PM
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Re: stars .25/.50
I'm actually ok with the flop check/call, but BET the turn. It traps UTG and might trick MP3 into raising. c/r almost guarantees UTG will fold if the turn gets bet at all.
Preflop, never fold a PP for 1/2 a bet. Ever. Ever. Even if you're playing for set value as you realized your implied odds skyrocket when you're only paying half a bet (which is also why you can play some suited hands you couldn't normally limp for a full bet). Also 66 is good enough to bet the flop UI sometimes.
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#18
06-11-2007, 05:27 AM
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Re: stars .25/.50
[ QUOTE ]
I'm actually ok with the flop check/call, but BET the turn. It traps UTG and might trick MP3 into raising. c/r almost guarantees UTG will fold if the turn gets bet at all. [/ QUOTE ] If MP3 is raising, he's raising us on the flop as well?
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#19
06-11-2007, 06:33 AM
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Re: stars .25/.50
grunching
both are terrible hand 1... wtf. bet flop. as played bet turn. this is really really really really bad hand 2... i probably cap preflop. as played c/c flop, or c/r if you feel the need, dont donk there ever. turn and river are fine
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#20
06-11-2007, 02:31 PM
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Re: stars .25/.50
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I'm actually ok with the flop check/call, but BET the turn. It traps UTG and might trick MP3 into raising. c/r almost guarantees UTG will fold if the turn gets bet at all. [/ QUOTE ] If MP3 is raising, he's raising us on the flop as well? [/ QUOTE ] Yeah but we get an extra 1/2 SB against Ax if he's only willing to raise it once (not an unreasonable assumption) The thing about flopping AK6 rainbow with 66 in an unraised pot is that basically nothing is going to give you much action so there's nothing wrong with trying to encourage flop stabs/peels imo.
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