25NL Extracting value with straight

samwallistea · #1 06-10-2007, 11:56 AM

I had a good weekend with great results in 25NL, but this hand I feel looking back I could have extracted more value. What do you guys think?

SB is a complete idiot maniac, the reason I'm sitting at the table, he's made some ridiculous reraises preflop and has yet to fold a hand if he connects in anyway with the board. 48/26/4 over 72 hands.

BB is an extremely tight player, have seen very little from him, he is playing ABC poker, no bluffs or cbets. 15/7/1 over 100 hands

I played this hand passively because I really felt BB had hit a flush on turn, and the SB was liable to reraise with any 2 on any street, and I knew I would fold to any aggression with my straight. Looking back though I feel maybe I could have got more value for this hand, all comments and pointers welcomed.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($52.55)
UTG ($33.05)
MP ($4.80)
Hero ($44.30)
SB ($45.90)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7

, 8

.
1 fold, MP calls $0.25, Hero calls $0.25, SB raises to $0.75, BB calls $0.50, MP folds, Hero calls $0.50.

Flop: ($2.50) T

, 9

, 3

(3 players)
SB bets $1.25, BB calls $1.25, Hero calls $1.25.

Turn: ($6.25) 6

(3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($6.25) T

(3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: $6.25

youthies · #2 06-10-2007, 12:05 PM

You have to bet the turn to protect from lone diamond hands. Why do you think BB hit a flush? If he's playing ABC, he would bet out.

samwallistea · #3 06-10-2007, 12:33 PM

His flat call on flop I knew he had some kind of draw, turns out he actullay had QJ for the up and down straight draw.

wikemang · #4 06-10-2007, 12:37 PM

Bet the turn to charge lone diamond draws. We aren't really worried about SB raising us, but if BB does, we can fold and move on to the next hand.

Pokey · #5 06-10-2007, 01:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Bet the turn to charge lone diamond draws. We aren't really worried about SB raising us, but if BB does, we can fold and move on to the next hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

More to the point: there is $6.25 in the pot right now. If after the turn is checked through either SB or BB bets $4 on the river you'd have to call with your straight to protect against pairs and bluffs. You'd HAVE to -- anything else would be ludicrously weak-tight. Now, GIVEN that you'd have to call a $4 bet on the river, making a $4 bet on the turn can't cost you more money than you would already have had to commit if you were behind. A flush is going to get $4 more from you, bare minimum. If you bet it on the turn, you can fold to a reraise, and you can fold to aggression on the river -- those would be strong plays that would indicate a lack of fear on the part of your opponents after you had shown strength. Let's look at the advantages of checking the turn versus betting the turn:

Advantages of checking the turn:

1. Saves us money when we're behind. (O Rly? you can't escape losing some cash if you're behind to the flush, here, so whether you lose $4 by betting and folding or by calling and losing, you're still losing $4.)

2. Avoids building a pot if the river card kills our hand. (Another red herring -- if you're ahead now then your opponents are drawing to AT MOST 18 outs between them -- a set and a flush draw -- meaning that you're getting 2-to-1 odds on a turn bet while winning slightly over 50% of the time. That's a +EV bet NOW, even if you do get unlucky on the river occasionally.)

3. It induces a bluff. (SB doesn't need help to induce a bluff, here -- he's a maniac. He's just as likely to three-bet you with crap if you bet the turn, hoping to push you off your hand. As to BB, if he's playing ABC he's not going to stab at the pot on the river against a maniac who can't fold and another respectable player unless he's really got a hand. You're attempt to induce a bluff is unnecessary and unproductive.)

Advantages of betting the turn:

1. You charge draws. (Straight draws and flush draws are going to pay you off like a broken ATM if you put $4 into the pot on the turn. Why let them escape unscathed on the river when they KNOW they've missed when you could charge them a hefty fee on the turn when they still have potential?)

2. You are less likely to make a mistake on the river. (After you bet the turn, someone donking into you on the river is less likely than usual to be bluffing, which would allow you to escape more easily should a fourth diamond fall. Similarly, players are less likely to try to steal on a scare card against aggression than they are against a blank. Also, you can feel reasonably confident that callers on the turn were drawing to something, which makes you less likely to try to value bet if you lose the hand on the river.)

3. A straight is a good hand, and you should be extracting when you are ahead of their ranges. (You said SB was a payoff artist and you thought that BB was on a draw -- those are likely to call this turn. Charge them a price! Build a pot when you're likely ahead.)

4. Your hand is made but cannot improve, and could get worse. (When your hand is medium-strong but has nowhere to go but down, now is the time to bet. If you scoop the pot you avoid scary river decisions, and if you get called you build a pot while you're likely to be ahead.)

samwallistea · #6 06-10-2007, 01:18 PM

Thanks a lot Pokey wasnt expecting such an indepth reply really helpful, cheers, will be betting the turn from now on for sure.