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#22
06-09-2007, 05:06 AM
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Re: How does Alex Jacob do it you ask??
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] But it still doesn't answer the question - is playing TT good here? how many times such play is profitable? [/ QUOTE ] IMO it's a very very marginal play by Alex. The re-raise to 3800 is fine, but once Paul puts in 1/2 his stack on the 3rd bet, Alex has to know Paul is not messing around. Paul hadn't played a hand in an hour so best case scenario for Alex is that he's racing vs. AK, or he's dominated w/ a higher pair. Alex's fold equity is exactly 0, so I'm not quite sure what he was thinking. I'm not sure exaclty how deep Alex was a the time, if he had 60k or more then it's a bit less marginal. Still not a good play vs. someone who hasn't played a hand in over an hour. [/ QUOTE ] If Paul's stack is 16500, Alex would risk 12700 to win 21650 on a 10-handed table, meaning he needs 36.97% equity to break even. TT vs JJ+/AK is 33.65% I'm no tournament expert so I might be wrong of course, but I would not be surprised if Paul's range when he makes it 8800 is wider than JJ+ and AK. If it is, Alex play would be good from a pure chips EV standpoint. Add AQ and his equity would be 40.11% for example. Other tournament specific considerations, I'm not qualified to comment on. [/ QUOTE ] Cmon this is absurd. Obviously hes 4 betting AK/JJ, and there is always some chance he's messing around due to his image. It's freaking CO vs button and they aren't that deep. You don't have to be a loose cannon to get all your chips in here with AQs. [/ QUOTE ] I think you misunderstood me. I was saying that the only way Alex play of shoving instead of folding is not profitable is if Paul's range after his 3-bet is JJ+/AK, not wider. If it IS wider, it is profitable for Alex. I also implied I believe Paul's range is wider. (Strictly talking chip EV) Edited for some clarity. [/ QUOTE ] Alex knows how I play, and we both know that my range in this hand is exactly Q,Q // K,K // A,A // A,K J,J I'm not putting in 28x BB and he plays enough with me to know that. His stack was 32k at this point 
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#23
06-09-2007, 07:36 AM
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Re: How does Alex Jacob do it you ask??
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] But it still doesn't answer the question - is playing TT good here? how many times such play is profitable? [/ QUOTE ] IMO it's a very very marginal play by Alex. The re-raise to 3800 is fine, but once Paul puts in 1/2 his stack on the 3rd bet, Alex has to know Paul is not messing around. Paul hadn't played a hand in an hour so best case scenario for Alex is that he's racing vs. AK, or he's dominated w/ a higher pair. Alex's fold equity is exactly 0, so I'm not quite sure what he was thinking. I'm not sure exaclty how deep Alex was a the time, if he had 60k or more then it's a bit less marginal. Still not a good play vs. someone who hasn't played a hand in over an hour. [/ QUOTE ] If Paul's stack is 16500, Alex would risk 12700 to win 21650 on a 10-handed table, meaning he needs 36.97% equity to break even. TT vs JJ+/AK is 33.65% I'm no tournament expert so I might be wrong of course, but I would not be surprised if Paul's range when he makes it 8800 is wider than JJ+ and AK. If it is, Alex play would be good from a pure chips EV standpoint. Add AQ and his equity would be 40.11% for example. Other tournament specific considerations, I'm not qualified to comment on. [/ QUOTE ] Cmon this is absurd. Obviously hes 4 betting AK/JJ, and there is always some chance he's messing around due to his image. It's freaking CO vs button and they aren't that deep. You don't have to be a loose cannon to get all your chips in here with AQs. [/ QUOTE ] I think you misunderstood me. I was saying that the only way Alex play of shoving instead of folding is not profitable is if Paul's range after his 3-bet is JJ+/AK, not wider. If it IS wider, it is profitable for Alex. I also implied I believe Paul's range is wider. (Strictly talking chip EV) Edited for some clarity. [/ QUOTE ] Alex knows how I play, and we both know that my range in this hand is exactly Q,Q // K,K // A,A // A,K J,J I'm not putting in 28x BB and he plays enough with me to know that. His stack was 32k at this point [/ QUOTE ] Then it's a breakeven play (chip-wise) if my assumption about your stack was correct. TT has 36.41% equity against QQ+/AK, the fact that your range doesn't include JJ makes Alex's decision better (of course you know that). Whether or not it's smart to do a coinflip in this situation I have no idea. If it isn't though, it's probably not horribly horribe, is it? Hardly worth starting a thread about, pointing out Alex's luckboxness, anyway.
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#25
06-09-2007, 04:33 PM
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Re: How does Alex Jacob do it you ask??
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] But it still doesn't answer the question - is playing TT good here? how many times such play is profitable? [/ QUOTE ] IMO it's a very very marginal play by Alex. The re-raise to 3800 is fine, but once Paul puts in 1/2 his stack on the 3rd bet, Alex has to know Paul is not messing around. Paul hadn't played a hand in an hour so best case scenario for Alex is that he's racing vs. AK, or he's dominated w/ a higher pair. Alex's fold equity is exactly 0, so I'm not quite sure what he was thinking. I'm not sure exaclty how deep Alex was a the time, if he had 60k or more then it's a bit less marginal. Still not a good play vs. someone who hasn't played a hand in over an hour. [/ QUOTE ] If Paul's stack is 16500, Alex would risk 12700 to win 21650 on a 10-handed table, meaning he needs 36.97% equity to break even. TT vs JJ+/AK is 33.65% I'm no tournament expert so I might be wrong of course, but I would not be surprised if Paul's range when he makes it 8800 is wider than JJ+ and AK. If it is, Alex play would be good from a pure chips EV standpoint. Add AQ and his equity would be 40.11% for example. Other tournament specific considerations, I'm not qualified to comment on. [/ QUOTE ] Cmon this is absurd. Obviously hes 4 betting AK/JJ, and there is always some chance he's messing around due to his image. It's freaking CO vs button and they aren't that deep. You don't have to be a loose cannon to get all your chips in here with AQs. [/ QUOTE ] I think you misunderstood me. I was saying that the only way Alex play of shoving instead of folding is not profitable is if Paul's range after his 3-bet is JJ+/AK, not wider. If it IS wider, it is profitable for Alex. I also implied I believe Paul's range is wider. (Strictly talking chip EV) Edited for some clarity. [/ QUOTE ] Alex knows how I play, and we both know that my range in this hand is exactly Q,Q // K,K // A,A // A,K J,J I'm not putting in 28x BB and he plays enough with me to know that. His stack was 32k at this point [/ QUOTE ] Then it's a breakeven play (chip-wise) if my assumption about your stack was correct. TT has 36.41% equity against QQ+/AK, the fact that your range doesn't include JJ makes Alex's decision better (of course you know that). Whether or not it's smart to do a coinflip in this situation I have no idea. If it isn't though, it's probably not horribly horribe, is it? Hardly worth starting a thread about, pointing out Alex's luckboxness, anyway. [/ QUOTE ] I didn't start the thread, but it was brought to my attention and I thought I should clarify some of the facts that were left out (i.e. what the chips stacks were, what my range is [in Alex's mind], etc.). Alex is a good friend of mine and I was happy to see him take third, there's obviously no hard feelings. I just personally felt like this was one of my best played tournaments and to be taken out like that was a punch in the stomach. In retrospect, it just comes down to playing styles. Alex takes a lot more chances than I do, so he usually has either a much bigger stack or is out earlier, but there is no denying that he is a beast, especially with a big stack.
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#26
06-09-2007, 05:14 PM
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Re: How does Alex Jacob do it you ask??
Alex takes a lot more chances than ALOT of people do, so he usually has either a much bigger stack or is out earlier, but there is no denying that he is a beast, especially with a big stack.
Case closed........he got lucky on this hand and drew out on your JJ's,and I am sure he knows that. After amassing a huge stack,he uses this weapon relentlessly.If your hand would have held up, he would have quietly said nice hand! I wish every hand I was a favorite ,whether it be a good or bad call,held up! ~stephen feraca
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#27
06-10-2007, 01:52 AM
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Re: How does Alex Jacob do it you ask??
[ QUOTE ]
Case closed........he got lucky on this hand and drew out on your JJ's [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I flopped a K but he rivered a 10 and he had me covered. [/ QUOTE ] Can you do the rest?
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#28
06-10-2007, 02:06 AM
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Re: How does Alex Jacob do it you ask??
[ QUOTE ]
Alex knows how I play, and we both know that my range in this hand is exactly Q,Q // K,K // A,A // A,K J,J I'm not putting in 28x BB and he plays enough with me to know that. His stack was 32k at this point [/ QUOTE ] So you open in the co and a super aggressive player 3bets you and you're only putting your money in with JJ+/AK? That seems insane to me. Aren't you opening like 20%+ of your hands in the CO? This hand seems super standard to me, and shaun I think the initial 3bet is fine/good assuming Paul's opening a lot and AJ will therefore be 3betting a lot of hands (and has to protect the 3betting of trash with hands like these). Steve
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#29
06-10-2007, 02:36 AM
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Re: How does Alex Jacob do it you ask??
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Alex knows how I play, and we both know that my range in this hand is exactly Q,Q // K,K // A,A // A,K J,J I'm not putting in 28x BB and he plays enough with me to know that. His stack was 32k at this point [/ QUOTE ] So you open in the co and a super aggressive player 3bets you and you're only putting your money in with JJ+/AK? That seems insane to me. Aren't you opening like 20%+ of your hands in the CO? This hand seems super standard to me, and shaun I think the initial 3bet is fine/good assuming Paul's opening a lot and AJ will therefore be 3betting a lot of hands (and has to protect the 3betting of trash with hands like these). Steve [/ QUOTE ] Actually, according to Paul's post, he's only putting it in with QQ+/AK and presumably folding JJ. The question is, would he play it this way if he had AA or KK or would he try to let AJ hang himself on the flop. If he'd try plan B, his range for this line is that much narrower.
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