Take the early edge ?

[APipeDream]

I think it's easy to try and justify a call for some people who primarily play on the internet, especially when another Micro MTT starts in a few minutes.

I think this is quite possibly one of the easiest folds on earth if you plan to have a sound strategy and decent concentration for the long-run in one of these MTTs. If you can play, you should mostly only be afraid of suckouts and squeezes gone bad in these...FOLD!

[RogerThatOne]

I'd agree with this. First hand of MTT you have no clue what types of players you are up against. For me, half (if not more) of the skill of cashing is sizing up your table and then picking your opponents. If you fold and lay back, you get a ton of info on these two players... And although only one survives, if it's the donker, you can pick on him, and if it's the other donker... well, you get it. I guess EV means less to me than knowledge of the table. Easy fold.

[Sherman]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd agree with this. First hand of MTT you have no clue what types of players you are up against. For me, half (if not more) of the skill of cashing is sizing up your table and then picking your opponents. If you fold and lay back, you get a ton of info on these two players... And although only one survives, if it's the donker, you can pick on him, and if it's the other donker... well, you get it. I guess EV means less to me than knowledge of the table. Easy fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

But we do have info. on these players. They are playing a $2 tournament. That means ON AVERAGE they are terrible. In anticipating your argument that "if they are bad, we can wait for a better spot." No you cannot. They are so bad that they will donk off their chips ON AVERAGE to everyone else and you might not have a better spot to get them. So get the chips while you can.

The fact is, against unknowns in a $2 tournament, we have to assume they are average. Average means they [censored] suck. It also means, that ON AVERAGE in the $2 tournaments we play, this is a good play.

Stop thinking this is the only tournament we will ever play!

[kurtkatt]

this is like math for dummies. lots of ppl trying to understand why this is a call where u would be soo much better off right now just accepting it is a call and then later on understand why.

[Mingdu]

not into blind faith kurt

using this very liberal range gets you knocked out of 6 of 10 events, a better range and it's 7 of 10 ... gonna have to show some fancy dummy math on chip equity to make that work ... and everything I've read points to the fact that this is a gawd awful call

just saying it's good doesn't make it so

[kurtkatt]

or just make this call in blind faith, watch your roi go up, profit and then move on..

sherman and fiji has already given enough arguments to make this a call. any resistance just seems like the artstudent trying to understand easy math in highschool, while they would do much better just learning the rules....

[kurtkatt]

anyhow, u yourself give us 40% equity getting 3-1. what else is there to say?

edit, oops 2-1 that is..

[Son of 51 LIMA]

I think that the people who said to fold are correct and the people that say to call are correct, but your fold was wrong. Let me explain.

If you are in a situation like this, and you feel that you are up against a high PP or four overcards, then the fold is good. If you think that you are 60% to win while getting better than 2:1 odds, then you should call.

You did something different though:

You thought you had a 60% edge to win a huge pot giving over 2:1 odds and you folded anyway. This is a weak play. Don't be a weak player. You have no real chance of winning an MTT if you are afraid to act when you think you have an edge.

Plays like this will lead to you constantly making it to about bubble time when you are forced to stick all your chips in when you have a 'M' in the 'Red Zone'. If you are lucky enough to double up you'll make a couple bucks.

There is nothing wrong with making a read and acting on it. If you lose, at least you gave yourself a chance.

[Mingdu]

[ QUOTE ]
anyhow, u yourself give us 40% equity getting 3-1. what else is there to say?

edit, oops 2-1 that is..

[/ QUOTE ]

It isn't a cash game where you can reload. The equity you lose in the 6-7 games you are out of isn't replaced by the triple up in the 3-4 games you are still in. Especially early when blinds are low and effective stacks are a third of what we are working with

I'm happy with my fold

Anyways ... the Wotmog thing was fascinating and a huge help ... thanks to whoever posted that

[Sherman]

/sigh/

Some threads just make me want to vomit.