16$. Bubble calling range here?

[RexWoo]

Finn, I get the same results and I am VERY surprised that a call is correct with KTs or A8s (if CO is on 80%)

[TheWhiteLake]

hm, i just checkt it out with sngegt and it says SB should only call AA-TT if CO is pushing any two. Im somewhat confused that your results are that different

[RexWoo]

Does SNGPT take into account that :
* BB will call 99% of the time if you fold
* BB will fold 99% of the time if you call

?

[TheWhiteLake]

*sigh*
either i completly misunderstand the software or i have to buy another icm calculator. i notice sngegt gives some really sick results

[MaLiik]

Lets look at the table, getting ~2000 chips (5BB/3M) will still have us at 3:rd place. Which will be the same as if we fold and BB get knocked out. I'd say we should play this hand really thight since BB will be forced to call if we fold.

And CO could have anything, if he loses he could benefit since he will have two players who could battle for the 2:nd place which should be exploitable for a big stack.

[ipushufold]

Never thought this would get so many replies.

I get why CO should be pushing 100% here but I don't get whether my calling range should be tight or somewhat loose? I seem to get different answer from alot of you according to what ICM program you use [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Shillx]

I'm out of town so I can't run equity models but Finnisher's post looks about right. Just from looking at it I figured you would want ~60% equity to call.

[Finnisher]

[ QUOTE ]
I get why CO should be pushing 100% here but I don't get whether my calling range should be tight or somewhat loose? I seem to get different answer from alot of you according to what ICM program you use [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
Different progs give different answers cos afaik SNGWiz is the only that takes BB's action into the calculations.

Just think about the different scenarios for this hand, this is something you might almost have time to do at the table if you have a full time bank and no other tables [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Just assume CO is shoving 100%, BB calls 100% if you fold and overcalls very tight when you call (basically just ignore the overcall). If you fold CO will win 50% and you're ITM with a very small stack so just give yourself 0.22 EV. If BB wins you're in pretty bad shape, a decent guess might be that you'll ITM 25% (2x double up) and you'll be almost always third so maybe 0.06 is close. Those add up to .5*.22+.5*.06 = 0.14 for folding.

Now calling, if you lose it's obv 0. If you win you're ITM almost always but still the shortest stack so just guess the EV at around 0.25 (no cheating with ICMDUCY [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]). Then you just have to do EVfold/EVwin or 0.14/0.25 which is 56%, that's the equity you need against CO to make this call. That's only a crude guess but at least you'd know it's not in the KK+ range. And if your guess is way off it's not a big deal, at least you tried doing something. Also, making calcs like this is fun obv!

haha, very confusing but that's what I did before I gave up and did it with SNGWiz [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[ipushufold]

Oh ok, thanks Finnisher for taking the time. Really appreciate it.