KJs vs a loose PFR

[IQUITyestarday]

He had A10. I would bet my entire roll on it. He didnt put you on the jack cause you did not RR. So yea you go pwnd by a bluff. Thats just me.

[kaz2107]

[ QUOTE ]
He had A10. I would bet my entire roll on it. He didnt put you on the jack cause you did not RR. So yea you go pwnd by a bluff. Thats just me.

[/ QUOTE ]kool lets put villian on one of tha few hands we beat. thanks for ur input. lets all randomly guess hands with no content. imma say he had 59o [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[IQUITyestarday]

You might think I didnt think about that at all and just tossed in that comment. I did infact think it through. He was a loose player you said.

He may have had a boat too...who knows. Im thinking of the lose player as one who would over bet middle pair.

Maybe you dodged a bullet here.

I would pay him for his history.

ROFL. Sry to disgruntle.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He had A10. I would bet my entire roll on it. He didnt put you on the jack cause you did not RR. So yea you go pwnd by a bluff. Thats just me.

[/ QUOTE ]kool lets put villian on one of tha few hands we beat. thanks for ur input. lets all randomly guess hands with no content. imma say he had 59o [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

[kaz2107]

[ QUOTE ]
You might think I didnt think about that at all and just tossed in that comment. I did infact think it through. He was a loose player you said.

He may have had a boat too...who knows. Im thinking of the lose player as one who would over bet middle pair.

Maybe you dodged a bullet here.

I would pay him for his history.

ROFL. Sry to disgruntle.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He had A10. I would bet my entire roll on it. He didnt put you on the jack cause you did not RR. So yea you go pwnd by a bluff. Thats just me.

[/ QUOTE ]kool lets put villian on one of tha few hands we beat. thanks for ur input. lets all randomly guess hands with no content. imma say he had 59o [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]lol u basically completely missed the point i was making. it helps NO ONE for u to just say "i think he had AT u got bluffed"

idc if u think that or not. but have some reasoning behindd this reason and tell the posters why u think this. u sorta did this in ur reply to mine but idc. just saying. ur first post is 100% useless to the entire forum

[humP]

22 isn't that high pre-flop raise rate, especially if he minraises his hands..

[Chomp]

Is there any chance that OP's postflop line is the most +EV?

On flop, what hands that we are beating could we get more value from if we raise? None surely, as we only have a modest 2P2K. So we call to draw/re-evaluate with a marginal hand, decent odds, a pair and if we have the best hand now we should still have it on turn.

Similarly on turn, a raise = a push given stack sizes. But a raise folds most 2p hands and gets called by str8s and boats. And while 2p/random K hands may be a larger part of his range than the st8/boat hands, I don't think it's so far apart that we need to commit the remaining 3/5 of our precious stack to find that out.

On river: Bingo the picture is complete! This is a bluff or we're beat. And it looks like we're dead here to me. I mean, the board is so scary, we are TAG, we have called along and he's still jamming? Not good IMO.

So I think we are dead here and lost the least money finding that out with a hand that could have struck gold.


Edit: for "2P" I think I meant "2P AND 1P" throughout

[munkey]

Thanks for the replies guys. I felt too I should've raised somewhere but din;t know where [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

I considered 3betting preflop - but it was quite possible 1 or 2 of the loose blinds would call that too so decided to see a flop and play.

The reason I didn't raise the flop was I essentially had bottom pair+str8draw and wanted to not get 3bet.

I agree in hindsight the turn I should've may be raised.
River I just felt I was beat and timed down as the myriad of hands beat me though he could've had jx rag too.

FWIW He played a similar hand later and potted the flop and turn vs the PFR with a5o UI and got called down like me -but he checked the river IP and gave up vs a TAG player too.

P.S I meant jt not qt doh - @ the time o nthe river I just thought he pfred all broadway combos -there must be many e.t.c. and is 1 of the reasons I folded.

I guess passive play even vs aggro tards makes play hard.

[Chomp]

Munkey, are you happy that raising the turn is a pot-committing bet?

Also, what hands do we hope calls the turn raise? AQ? AA? AK? Dunno, I can't see AA being in his range, and AK is a tiny part of it and AQ we do indeed beat.

I guess I don't think a turn raise is getting called by any worse hands and is only really effective agasint a bluff or a hugely overplayed TP.

[munkey]

Chomp
[ QUOTE ]

Munkey, are you happy that raising the turn is a pot-committing bet?


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not happy that I would have to shove the turn [I did consider it] I agree with you and have swung back to calling from raising now when you mention his calling rnage is smaller- but since I can't fold I'll have to call.

I was shoving a str8/king river or vbet if checked to and calling a push if he checked to me on the river. I did also consider a missed fdraw.

I guess even playing nitty TAG like myself you get in tricky spots.

[Chomp]

Yeah, that's why I think you played this hand in the most EV way and I can't quite see any other way of playing it.

TBH, I don't think any of the replies above have really justified why they want to raise flop or turn in EV terms.