Let's make this clear....SPORTS BETTING is a SKILL also

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
The biggest intellectual shortcoming among people these days is the inability to realize that all things have MULTIPLE CAUSES. Online gambling is opposed by moralists, nanny-staters, B&M gaming (to a mixed extent), sports leagues, AND poiticians who havent figured out how to make money off it. Each of these groups has different beliefs and agendas.

To single out one group and its agenda as the be-all and end-all of the opposition is a mistake and will hinder our efforts.

Skallagrim

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

Sun Tzu said "know your enemy" in the Art of War.

[oldbookguy]

[ QUOTE ]
Taxing internet gaming is truly a very simple matter.

There have so far not been taxes on internet sales because the Feds have passed a law banning them. Easily undone by the Feds for gaming if they choose.

[/ QUOTE ]

Too much misunderstanding here, the NO Internet tax applies to state / local governments charging access taxes only.

Income tax is paid by those who do business online.

Sales taxes are collected if your state has one and it is collected if you have an outlet in another state (physical location) in another state.

As to internet gambling, it is taxed if you win already the same as if you buy a lottery ticket and win at 7-11 or win at a B&M casino. The trouble is the off shore gambling sites have not sent you / me, the IRS and my / your state the required 1099 forms if you win more than 600.00 TOTAL in a single year. Had this been being done and HAD companies like Neteller REQUIRED and REPORTED the Foreign Bank Account Statements to the IRS alot of this perhaps would never have happened.

Notice NO ONE goes after AOL, MSN or Yahoo who ALL have online Gaming Wagering.

Why not? Well, ALL the above RULES are being followed, thus taxes are collected, no fears of money laundering since ALL bank accounts are reported.......

Had the poker sites / e-wallets (and probably even the sports books) followed these rules there would have been no argument left to make except morality.

Read the preamble (Sense of Congress) to the UIGEA.

obg

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As Engineer said, the ability to tax and regulate online gaming has existed for years. If thats all it takes, why is it not here now?

[/ QUOTE ]

As Engineer said, Where is your evidence? I don't think anyone's figured it out yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

The sites have been BEGGING to be regulated in the U.S., Party in particular. Harrahs and MGM would open sites TOMORROW from Nevada if they could. They'd pay taxes, so there you go.

Also, IGREA requires licensing and revenue collection.

[Piece of Cake]

I don't have control over the outcome of many of the holdings in my equity portfolio. The "control" is over which investments I make. And where was Kyl when I blew 20k on a penny stock in the OTCBB market without any DD last week. In the libertarian sense however, skill shouldn't matter. Where was Kyl when I blew 12 bucks on a crappy movie movie last weekend - or 10k on a new boat that I should've saved for my child's tuition. Oh noes, I wasted discretionary income on entertainment!!!!

[iggymcfly]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

.
.
This is the flimsy argument I was referring to. Why is such a distinction, if it exists, important? And again, I will state that I wholeheartedly disagree with this. In both cases we are "players". In sports betting, you are matching your wits against the bookmaker (a person or group of people). Your fate, however, is decided by players on a field. In poker, you are matching your wits against other poker players. Your fate, however, is decided by which cards come.


[/ QUOTE ]

If 'ole glue factory' stumbles rounding the second turn, you cannot withdraw your bet or a portion thereof.

In poker, if two aces flop and you have reason to believe a bettor holds an ace, you can withdraw from the hand and lose the minimum.

BIG DIFFERENCE. In poker the individual player (contestant) can affect a favorable outcome (winning the most, losing the least) if his or her judgement is good.

Tuff

[/ QUOTE ]

I take poker a lot more seriously than sports betting, and if I could get online poker completely legalized with the price being that sports betting would never ever be legalized in the US outside of Nevada, I'd be OK with that.

However, your argument's ridiculous. Both sports and poker have times when you can bet and times when you can't. If I lay a bet on the Cavaliers and then I hear that Daniel Gibson is injured, I may be able to hedge that bet if I respond to the information quickly enough. Likewise, I may bet the Cavs at +450 when the line opens with the idea that it's going to move (making a "read" on the other bettors) and then take San Antonio at -400 just before gametime exposing myself to no risk from the luck of the game whatsoever. In fact, given that the line's are constantly moving, there are an infinite number of opportunities to bet on a sporting event as opposed to 4 or 5 streets for most poker games.

Your argument about doing something during the event is ridiculous though because that's no longer the time for betting. Your "glue factory" example is the equivalent of and saying: "well, I went all-in with top set on the flop, and then when a straight card came on the river, I couldn't get my money back even though I knew my opponent had a wrap. Woe is me. Poker's nothing but a game of luck."

[morphball]

[ QUOTE ]
Sportsbetting is a "market".

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree 100%

[morphball]

[ QUOTE ]
This is an argument that has been argued so many times. In my opinion even though there is definite skill involved you are still wagering money on an event where the bettor has NO CONTROL over the outcome. IMHO this is the biggest distinction between poker and sports betting. I win at poker based on how I play, a sports bettor wins based on how others play and the outcome can be changed based on so many uncontrollable conditions, injury, weather etc... Except for normal variance, cold cards and such my winning and losing is based on decisions I make based on skill and experience. Bottom line is MY ACTIONS make me a winning or losing player even if it rains, snows,there is 40 mph winds outside, or even if I have a torn ACL.

[/ QUOTE ]

Betting on sports is fundamentally no different than investing in the stock market. You can't control what companies do either.

[Skallagrim]

Lets end this thread by agreeing, OK?

Poker takes skill at making decisions to be a winner.

Sportsbetting takes skill at making decisions to be a winner.

Beyond that they are very different things, and require very different methods to protect against perceived "harm to society."

And thus until we truly have a liberty loving country again, the process for legislatively adressing their legal status ought to remain separate.

Skallagrim

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
Lets end this thread

[/ QUOTE ]

It's run its course.

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[vgs]

Spending our own money freely as long as it does not hurting anybody is a way of free speech. So this act violated constitution IMO.