Ban programs (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)

[oracle3001]

PT & PA HUD only help to certain extent.

I think if you talk to any of the really top online players they will tell you that in their small player pools they isn't a lot of use for it.

PA HUD can only give you a brief overview of a persons play over the past x hands. If they are any good they will have been adapting their play based upon who their opponents are, how their opponents have been playing etc etc

So at the highest levels people are constantly changing gears, playing in different ways in certain positions and with certain hands. PA HUD can't pick up these often subtle changes in a persons play.

What it really allows you to do is spot a complete fish and/or if a more solid player has a huge leak in their game as and when you are playing. I'm sure it is something you could work out if you went through your PT DB with a pen and paper.

I think a lot of players, especially the big 12 tablers, can rely too heavily on the PA HUD stats. Just cos you have 10k hands on a player and it says he plays 50/5, doesn't mean he hasn't had the light bulb moment the past week and now he has a far better idea what he is doing.

[El_Hombre_Grande]

[ QUOTE ]
It's funnny. I was thinking about this yesterday. Yesterday I had a bad session and lost 5 buy-ins. And I was blaming the players using PT/PAHUD etc. But I can use it too. I'm just too lazy to start with it. It's easier to complain and try to ban it.
I'm stuck. I'm too lazy to use it and I don't want others to use it. Which makes me selfish. I don't want to be slefish so I just ignore it and try to play good poker. I'm gonna be better than data poker [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Holy Smokes. Too lazy to use PT and a HUD? But playing good internet poker without thems require WAY more work. I wouldn't want to be your supervisor at work. LOL.

Overall, I don't understand the back and forth in this thread that is premised on some ethical standard that I wasn't told about. For example, calling HUDS "soft cheating." WTF? Various sites allow or don't allow HUDS, datamining, etc., so it either is or is not cheating, but its clearly "black and white." To imply that using a HUD is cheating at a site that allows it is nonsense. Just like several months ago several posters suggested that it was OK to datamine at Stars, even though its prohibited, which is also nonsense. The rules are the rules, and when you suggest that the use of HUDs at a site that allows them is "soft cheating" thats no different that the old grumbling guy who thinks a check raise is cheating.

[68Mustang]

[ QUOTE ]
Poker Tracker and HUDs organize information that players have free access to.

That is kind of miles away from having a computer program play hands for you.

[/ QUOTE ]

But the argument is, PT and PAHUD are doing the work for you, samething a bot does. No one wants to take the notes, study the opponents anymore like you had to do back in the day.

There's alot of hypocritcy when it comes to this sore subject. No one wants their crutches removed, it's all easymode in the end.

[Archon_Wing]

[Using quick reply, not replying to anyone in particular]

People should stop driving to work. You have a machine doing the work for you! Disagree with me? Nobody wants to walk to work like they did back then!

Oh and btw,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman

In other news, the printing press is the work of the devil.

I will spell it out for some of you:
Just because PT/PAHUD have automated processes does not make them the same as a bot. That is like saying that apples are the same as oranges because they are both fruits, or that Humans are the same things as monkeys because they are both primates. Simply because things have traits in common does not mean they are the same thing. Draw a valid link, instead of attacking the opposition with petty comments about their morality and their skill level. And please read the logic links I have linked to above. I understand reading comprehension and critical thinking is not a strong part for some of you, but just try. You might learn something.

I can only explain so much. If you still don't get it, please complain to the school system as they have obviously failed.

[roo400]

People, stop saying it is black or white. It is simply an opinion. I'd rather play online poker with these programs banned but I won't stop playing stars/tilt because they allow it. I was simply stating my opinion on the fact that people get tells with these programs that they wouldn't be able to acquire themselves. Now, if you do not share my opinion, fine with you, but saying that an opinion is good/bad is stupid. And yeah, it is a questionable issue.

[Archon_Wing]

It isn't black and white. But if you were to express an opinion to others be prepared to defend it with reason and examples especially if your opinion may be controversial; that's just how it works. Otherwise there's no point for discussion. Most of the time, it is the faulty logic behind an opinion that gets attacked. Of course, I suppose it is easier to call each other names, as people on both sides would do.

[PerDoom]

Will poker sites ban these tools? No since 12+ tablers are a lot of their business.

Would this help games out a ton if they did? Yes.

[Nologo]

I'll never understand why people would want these programs banned. Yes, they provide us with information. It's like getting ready to play a live game with someone you've never played with before, and asking your friend who has what their tendencies are. This isn't cheating. Your job as a poker player is to logically apply these betting patterns to maximize your profits. You could give a random fish all the info that shows up on my PAHUD and they wouldn't have any idea what to do with it.

[Archon_Wing]

If these programs were advertised directly on the poker sites, would that suddenly make them ok?