Small PP in BB vs. Button Raise.

[markum9]

Tried to match the converter output, but for some reason i can't get the converter to work...

Poker Stars $50 No-Limit Hold'em, (9 handed)
Button ($52.25)....Hero Covers

Button is 19/9 after about 40 hands.

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
6 folds, Button raises to $2, SB (poster) folds, Hero calls $1.50.

Flop: ($4.25) K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $2, Button raises to $6, Hero folds.

I'm looking for advice on how others play similar hands (small pocket pairs in the blinds vs. a late position raise). I don't feel like I can raise pf against a decent opponent since i'm at best a coinflip and OOP.

I'm not sure this was the best time to take a stab at the flop, but do you find there a situation to do so, or is the pf call simply hoping for a set and done with the hand if it doesn't hit?

My thoughts: For pf call i needed to make sure button had a healthy stack to give myself odds for hitting a set. Against an uber-TAG i'd fold, against a normal TAG (as in this case) who could raise in late position with a wider range, or a LAG i'll call and hope for a set. Fold the flop unimproved barring a read.

Thanks!

[Peeda]

That flop bet is sort of begging to be raise or at least called with a marginal hand. I take it you're not going to keep firing. Make it close to what you'd lead with a set (at least 3, 4 perhaps) if you're going to take a stab at it, which shouldn't be your regular play (but you should do it to mix things up some minority of the time maybe if its HU and a solid non-tricky opponent).

I'd wait till theres a non A or K high flop to do this probably, cause he's raising lots of hands with a K in them.

What do you mean by uber-tag? If he's raising 2-3 percent of his hands you know what he has, so its worth set mining. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but against a "normal" tag/lag its actually harder to set mine. The added hands they raise with are actually countermeasure to set mining cause it greatly reduces the amount of times they can pay off your set with little cost to them. You gotta be comfortable making up extra money by stealing some small pots too if you're going to call against these types, else fold OOP HU it I think cause you can't hope to hit your set enough. Oh and I'm still figuring out this as well so maybe take this all with a grain of salt.

[wooly_chicken]

If you're raising preflop, I don't think it matters if you're at best a coinflip, because you're hoping to take it down then or with a continuation bet on flop.

If you're going to take a stab at this pot, you have to bet more. This is a really weak bet and unless you're betting all your hands like this (which is also bad), if I were Villian I would raise you with pretty much anything.

This seems like a worse than normal flop to try this though.

[markum9]

If I had hit my set, or hit top-pair with something like KJ, KQ, I would have led the flop the same. Against one opponent and a pretty dry flop (i'm not really concerned about the flush draw) my normal bet is 1/2 pot. I bet 3/4-full pot with more opponents or a more draw-y board. I'm not betting every time, obviously, but if i am going to bet, i'm doing the same with a hand or with air.

That being said, I agree that this bet isn't going to knock the button out too often, and isn't a very good play. The only way to get this to work would be for him to call flop, then fire barrel two at the turn. If there was a read that he'd call the flop with an A or a PP and then fold the turn unimproved, I would consider it, but I didn't have that read in this case.

As far as the uber-TAG thing, I think i agree with you. The biggest consideration is how far they'll go with their hand if i do hit my set, not what they have pre-flop. The only added-bonus would be if I had a read that my opponent was willing to fold to my post-flop betting if their hand doesn't improve.

Any thoughts from the morning crew (or i guess afternoon crew on the east-coast)?

[mistermuni]

*grunch*

I dont like to call with small pp's oop unless either
A) I'm not the first to call the raise (at least 3 way)
B) I'm getting 3-1 or better
C) Villain is complete maniac

Here, i c/f the flop

-grant

[Garon]

Hi markum,

I play small pairs for set value, so when we miss the flop I think this is an easy C/F.

Garon