Why do we Support Israel?

[jbrent33]

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By the way, if we are talking about "partners in the region", the Arab regimes have been steadily the most anti-communist and anti-Soviet regimes in the whole of Africa and Asia for the whole post-World War II period. The reason they eventually found themselves seeking military assistance from the USSR should be quite obvious.



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I agree with most of your points but would like to point out that this statement is incorrect.
At the time of the 1967 War (the peak of the Cold War) Syria and Egypt were both strongly in the Soviet camp. Nasser, leader of the Pan-Arab movement, was consider the Kremlin's man in the Middle East. The Soviet Navy was preparing to invade the port Haifa when the cease fire was reached.

Following our standard Cold War philosophy of opposing the Soviet where ever they were, our commitment to Israel was bound to grow. I had professor who believed that most of our policy towards Israel and the Mid-East today is a function of the decisions that the Johnson administration made around the 6 Days War.

[GoodCallYouWin]

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I am not disputing that living conditions are better in Israel, or that their justice system more closely resembles ours. But if you're going to argue that the Palestinians in the occupied territories receive the same rights as Israelis, or have a higher standard of living than in surrounding countries, this is clearly false.

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I know you think that but the U.N. objectively measures these things and they disagree with you. Don't believe me, check it out for yourself. The P.A. is ranked around 95 according to the 2006 U.N. study, with several neighbouring regions ranked above 100. I suppose that doesn't interest you though because it doesn't fit your idelogical definitions.

Also, I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't create strawmen. I never claimed that the Palestinians were doing as well as the Israelis; of course they're not. If they stop commiting terrorist attacks on Israel they will do much better than they are doing now of course but people who ask Israel not to defend herself are just sick.

[JOHNY CA$H]

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"

I am not disputing that living conditions are better in Israel, or that their justice system more closely resembles ours. But if you're going to argue that the Palestinians in the occupied territories receive the same rights as Israelis, or have a higher standard of living than in surrounding countries, this is clearly false.

"


I know you think that but the U.N. objectively measures these things and they disagree with you. Don't believe me, check it out for yourself. The P.A. is ranked around 95 according to the 2006 U.N. study, with several neighbouring regions ranked above 100. I suppose that doesn't interest you though because it doesn't fit your idelogical definitions.

Also, I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't create strawmen. I never claimed that the Palestinians were doing as well as the Israelis; of course they're not. If they stop commiting terrorist attacks on Israel they will do much better than they are doing now of course but people who ask Israel not to defend herself are just sick.

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OK- so THAT UN study is "objective" and should be considered, but when the UN sides against Israel, they are being racist and anti-semitic? You simply pick and choose whatever fits your point of view, and label any other as racist. If you're going to use this UN finding in your argument, you must also acknowledge the various sanctions against Israel. Either way, your argument doesn't work.

Also, the current intifada began in the early 90's. Israel has been occupying the West Bank and Gaza since 1967. You have you're cause and effect mixed up.

[Angeleyes]

They make good carbide.

[clowntable]

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I'll call you French. Where antisemitism is a tradition.

(Not that it isn't, to one degree or another, pretty much everywhere else, as well.)

It goes without saying that Palestine is a confounding burr in everyone's ass and, at the end of the day, you just have to throw up your hands and pick a side.

I pick the Jews...

There are perfectly rational reasons to pick the Arabs, instead.

And some disgusting ones...

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1) This is qed I guess
2) How antisemitic is a country with a Jew as president, lol

[clowntable]

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Pretty interesting thread, agreed that supporting Israel is against the US interests.

It is interesting however that the situation goes back even further than the creation of Israel. In WW1, the Arabs rose against the Ottomans with help from the British and were told that they would be able to become independant. However after the war the British and French simply divided up the area. All of the existing borders in the middle east, outside of Persia/Iran, exist due to the British/French. So Arab hatred and distrust of the West goes back a bit further than just our creation and support of Israel.

If Britain/France had let the Arabs create a country after WW1 the world would be a completely different place. However it is not in the best interests of any major country to see a unified Arab federation, as it would control a vast amount of oil and also strategic locations such as the Suez. It is much easier to keep them divided and play them off of eachother, which Israel helps with, as the issue of relations with Israel extremely divides the Arab nations. Without the leadership of Egypt, an Arab nationalist state will not happen. And note that Egypt already tried to form an Arab nationalist state when it joined with Syria, but that failed. However with Egypt at peace with Isael, Jordan at peace with Israel, Saudi's basiaclly friendly, and Iraq (the most powerful arab country not friends w/ israel) now taken out, Arabs have no leader around which to unite.

Also note before anyone comments that Iran is the most powerful country in the Middle East and hate Israel, Iran is not an Arab nation.

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Actually there is the Arab Mahgreb Union, I talked with representatives a couple of weeks ago.

[GoodCallYouWin]

JOHNY CA$H :

The U.N. is dominated by the Islamic / African states with Chinese backing. This is not exactly breaking news. They recently put Iran as the head of their disarmament committee.

That doesn't mean that everything they do is retarded, it just means the people in charge are retarded. The people who work for the U.N. who do the stuff in third world countries, giving out puppies and what have you, those people are ok. In fact the obvious presence of the Arab PR machine in the U.N. really only underscores the validity of it's data here. The fact is when they compare all the countries of the world, they stick to objective data. When they 'criticize nations for military action' they go with the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if the Arab nations know one thing it's how to invest in America. If they know two things it's investing in America and squeaking. They're also good at terrorism.

[JOHNY CA$H]

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JOHNY CA$H :

The U.N. is dominated by the Islamic / African states with Chinese backing. This is not exactly breaking news. They recently put Iran as the head of their disarmament committee.

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The opposite is the case. The U.N is dominated by Western nations. I think you perceive this because it is one of the few places where these voices are actually heard.

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That doesn't mean that everything they do is retarded, it just means the people in charge are retarded. The people who work for the U.N. who do the stuff in third world countries, giving out puppies and what have you, those people are ok. In fact the obvious presence of the Arab PR machine in the U.N. really only underscores the validity of it's data here. The fact is when they compare all the countries of the world, they stick to objective data. When they 'criticize nations for military action' they go with the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if the Arab nations know one thing it's how to invest in America. If they know two things it's investing in America and squeaking. They're also good at terrorism.

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Well, now you're using this perceived "Arab nation dominance" to both discredit UN data you don't like, and validate the data you do. There's no way to now analyze this objectively. The goal posts keep moving.