100NL: donkey play or just a bad river?

koreanmeanin · #1 06-04-2007, 05:45 PM

Villian here is a 2+2'er - I have him on paint, AK/AQ or something right from the getgo, and figure he has me on suited connectors or a middle pair based on my table image. Dangerous flop (for him) and I min-raise to take control on the flop and bet the turn hard - when he smooth calls after the danger card on fourth I have him on spades or just calling down with big cards. Spade draw misses but brings an over, and I really don't like where I'm at on fifth but at this point I can't just relinquish this pot ... thoughts on this play? I feel like any card besides an ace, queen, or spade on the river and i steal a decent chunk of change off of the villian here. donkey play, or was this just a bad river for the way i played this hand?

PokerStars Pot-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

MP3 ($212.50)
CO ($110.15)
Button ($30.50)
SB ($125.10)
BB ($96.90)
UTG ($152.10)
UTG+1 ($38.15)
Hero ($143.80)
MP2 ($85.50)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero calls $1, 5 folds, BB raises to $3.5, Hero calls $2.50.

Flop: ($7.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $5, Hero raises to $10, BB calls $5.

Turn: ($27.50) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $20, BB calls $20.

River: ($67.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $45, BB calls $45.

Final Pot: $157.50

BB has Qs As (one pair, queens).
Hero has Jc Ac (high card, ace).
Outcome: BB wins $157.50.

Teddie · #2 06-04-2007, 05:57 PM

If you have him on AK/AQ why bet when a Queen falls? If it was a ten then fair enough, but cant see the point betting that river. If it was a low card then i wouldnt have a problem, but when you have him on just 2 hands, and a card that helps his hand lands i dont see the point betting. Certainly not for a bet less then a pot.

Also, never min-raise, its such a awful thing too do and makes you look like a complete donk.

koreanmeanin · #3 06-04-2007, 06:04 PM

Yeah - I just felt committed to making the full monty there, and maybe he lays down something like KQs on that board. As far as min-raising goes, I actually do this quite frequently against all sorts of players. Maybe min-raising infrequently looks suspect, but when used often i think it can be perceived differently by the table.

I probably should have bet the pot, though - I agree on that count.

koreanmeanin · #4 06-04-2007, 06:23 PM

similar situation here, against another 2+2er

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($109.10)
UTG ($69.95)
UTG+1 ($81.80)
MP1 ($69.55)
MP2 ($121.40)
MP3 ($106.90)
CO ($91.35)
Button ($50.35)
Hero ($93.35)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
7 folds, Hero completes, BB raises to $4, Hero calls $3.

Flop: ($8) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $6, Hero raises to $12, BB calls $6.

Turn: ($32) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $22, Hero calls $22.

River: ($76) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $50, BB folds.

Final Pot: $126

Thrahl · #5 06-04-2007, 06:24 PM

Raise PF. Flop mini-raise is bad because you're giving him correct odds to call. Either re-pot the flop or fold and I'm leaning towards a fold here more often than not. 2nd barrel on the turn is OK I guess, but once he calls that turn I'm not putting another cent into this pot.

effang · #6 06-04-2007, 06:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
similar situation here, against another 2+2er

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($109.10)
UTG ($69.95)
UTG+1 ($81.80)
MP1 ($69.55)
MP2 ($121.40)
MP3 ($106.90)
CO ($91.35)
Button ($50.35)
Hero ($93.35)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
7 folds, Hero completes, BB raises to $4, Hero calls $3.

Flop: ($8) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $6, Hero raises to $12, BB calls $6.

Turn: ($32) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $22, Hero calls $22.

River: ($76) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $50, BB folds.

Final Pot: $126

[/ QUOTE ]

how is this a similar situation? he folded because he didn't have a made hand. i would look you up everytime on this river w/ ATC. if only to see what kind of "monster" you play with c/r c/c lead river line...lol

bottomset · #7 06-04-2007, 06:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
similar situation here, against another 2+2er

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($109.10)
UTG ($69.95)
UTG+1 ($81.80)
MP1 ($69.55)
MP2 ($121.40)
MP3 ($106.90)
CO ($91.35)
Button ($50.35)
Hero ($93.35)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
7 folds, Hero completes, BB raises to $4, Hero calls $3.

Flop: ($8) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $6, Hero raises to $12, BB calls $6.

Turn: ($32) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $22, Hero calls $22.

River: ($76) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $50, BB folds.

Final Pot: $126

[/ QUOTE ]

wow that line looks like massive massive spew

BigBiceps · #8 06-04-2007, 08:04 PM

raise preflop.
fold flop.
move down in limits until you learn the basics.

Vegetarian · #9 06-04-2007, 08:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
raise preflop.
fold flop.
move down in limits until you learn the basics.

[/ QUOTE ]

RyanCMU · #10 06-04-2007, 08:50 PM

Hand 2 is gross...

Hand 1 - I raise this preflop, Flop min raise, are you serious? I would just fold...Turn bet whatever, your following through, given the way the rest of the hand played out, you don't really have a choice... I just give up on the river though, what do you put him on that folds there that has played his hand this way?

Honestly, both hands are totally gross, whats your name on stars? PM me if you want, maybe I can give you some thoughts that I have on your game...