Mr. Gatorade’s Lies cost me over 70k at Full Tilt

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BeatMe1 (never saw bono play though) was the only person on the list I wasn't sure about. I watched her play and I didn't notice the timing or anything else that really seemed suspect. Obviously, there's much more that FT/CrazyMike must know that the casual obvserver doesn't.

The thing is, I'd have to believe Full Tilt would have to have some VERY compelling evidence to take the approach they did. You'd have to assume they err much more on the side of "not enough evidence" than "guilty" with the publicity they know they'd get if they were wrong.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure the public will be able to definitively know one way or the other.

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[apefish]

Interesting thread.
Without getting too involved in taking any side is it not possible that if the bots are programmed to only sit at an open table to avoid potentially playing themselves and BeatMe isn't a bot and sits at open tables OR against known fish only that the two wouldn't meet?
There are more than just two extremes here that could make some sense.

Edit: Also in re those saying Full Tilt must have some compelling evidence since they took no action in sukitrebeks case- why would that lead you to believe they need compelling evidence at all since the other case had more 2+2ers convinced than this one and in both cases Full Tilt presumably took the road that made them the most money. There is no reason to believe based on Full Tilt's seeming random responses to things like this that they saw this as anything other than a way to repair their image. A best of both world's scenario- the other side of the coin.
Unless Full Tilt starts crediting people who played against this person and don't use it as a money grab I don't believe their actions mean anything at all.

[fearme]

mr gatorade is that the UB bot list?? i dont think all of those names are bots

are some bots weaker than others??

[bobbyi]

Did FTP shutdown all of Mike's accused bots, or just this guy? Are the others still playing?

[___1___]

[ QUOTE ]
Did FTP shutdown all of Mike's accused bots, or just this guy? Are the others still playing?

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't seen the others (and a couple more mentioned in the MHUSH thread) in quite a while.

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[Beavis68]

[ QUOTE ]
barron,

You are right, I cant be 100% in the short term. After 10,000 hands with someone and every hand having the same unique elements that I dont think the bot users can change or adapt right now I can safly come to the conclusion that they are using a bot 100% and willing to put my money where my mouth is as I have already done time after time. Please remember when we met in LA and you thinking i am absolutly nuts about this bot thing, has your opinion changed and do you believe that bots exist now or are you still living in a fantasy world? I will still play you HUHU tho as long as I can have my Pepsi. =)

-Crazy Mike (MrGatorade)

[/ QUOTE ]

can something be the same and unique?

[MrGatorade]

[ QUOTE ]
"If not, I do not believe I called you a bot."

mrg, ive railed you plenty and seen you accuse many players of being a bot that were clearly not.

now, if you mean that you have never publicly (like on your site and thru emails) accused a non-bot of being a bot i can understand.

but its quite clear that at the tables you accuse almost immediately, and it seems to me, its done to create a reaction from the opponent. a first test if you will.

[/ QUOTE ]

Victor,
Simply put, asking someone if they use a bot is different from accusing someone. I do this sometimes for many reasons. If the name is on my site then that’s the accusation and not simply asking, "hey are you a bot". Two totally different things in my eyes but up for discussion. Anyhow, I don’t determine if someone used a bot until I review "offline" a number of methods that I have come up with. Remember though I am just some "Crazy" person with a website that puts names up that pretty much everyone agrees are bots, including FTP. I am not affiliated with FTP nor do I have the power to Ban or confiscate funds. I only bring my proof to the people that review it and they make the determination, not myself. In the next 2 weeks when I get back from being underway and finally out of the NAVY I will be able to provide more information and details on my website on exactly how to spot a bot and better anti bot techniques that the sites need to develop. I have thought a lot about posting my "methods" on how to detect a bot but given these circumstances for online poker today I believe that they are not conducive to share as the botters can in my opinion easily counter it once made public.

-Crazy Mike (MrGatorade)

[dDiabolical]

Atleast 2 of the supposed UB bots I have seen playing multiple games and chatting at the tables (one of them when accused of being a bot).

I think you are wrong about these, which makes me wonder how many others you are wrong about.

[Elvis57]

OMG a Kid Navy Brat that says it all. Case closed

[admiralfluff]

Mr. G,

Please do not make your detection methods, or the evidence you collected against beatme public. This is not a legal issue. There is no requirement for habeas corpus.

Is it possible this is a false positive? Of course. Lots of bots got kicked off FT after Mr. G's recent efforts, and only 1 person has proclaimed innocence. This would make sense if 1 botter was running several accounts, or if there was 1 mistake.

If beatme is a botter, her motivation for making this stink probably are not to try and get her money back. She wants to rile the 2+2 community up enough so that we begin to demand to see the evidence. For Mr. Gatorade or FTP to succumb do our demands would be a huge mistake, but it's possible either party might feel the building negative publicity would neccessitate it.

I also want to know the methods and evidence used for bot detection at FTP, but not nearly as much as I don't want beatme to. Please don't tell us.

Also note how many people have come out saying 'crazy mike accused me of being a bot.' None of them got letters from FTP saying 'we are 100% sure you are a bot'. It doesn't matter what Crazy Mike's batting average is. He doesn't ban bots. Poker sites do. If you don't trust FTP to do this, play somewhere else.

Come on guys. FTP won't ban someone for not chatting. They won't ban someone for sticking to a strategy and not tilting. Would they ban someone for taking the exact same amount of time in specific situations over significant trials? I hope so, because that's pretty damned good evidence. They also will not ban someone for never playing a hand against another player, or group of players. What if they all know each other? What if they play different stakes? These things might be good indications of where to start looking for bots, but noe of it is evidence. There is more to the story that we do not, and should not, know.

If you're not satisfied with that, don't keep much of your bankroll on-site, or switch sites. The slight -EV of a remote false+ is far outweighed by the big +EV of getting rid of a signifcant portion of the tough player population, which happen to be bots.