RNG question - help explain please

[7n7]

Please excuse the noob-like question, but I couldn't really find a good answer when I used google.

First, why I'm asking:

Playing 7-card stud online and I decided to fold on 4th st. when all I had was a gutshot and 1 of my 4 cards was known to be dead. I folded. Dealer deals 5th st. to the remaining players and the person sitting behind me picked up the card that would have completed my gutshot.

Now, RNGs run constantly, correct? So, that's not necessarily the card I would have received had I called correct?

I was trying to equate this to real life and thought it might be similar to a live dealer constantly shuffling the deck until you say "call" and then he immediately deals you the top card or "fold" and he immediately deals the next player the top card. Is this a foolish analogy?

Richard Brodie (via FTP chat) told me that my thinking that it wouldn't necessarily have been the card I would have received was correct, but I'm trying to figure out why. If my fold or call were timed exactly why wouldn't I have received that card?

I'd assume that RNGs run off something a bit more random that time though. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[IQUITyestarday]

Thats correct. The cards don't exist until they are delt. This is why it is rigged. They lay claim to prevention of cheating, but that is BS. Its like folding 83, in holdem, and the flop comes 883.

Even pokerstars lets users know that hands occasionally get delt out to detect cheating, or collusion. They are called betting hands. Your expected to bet/call/raise your hand, then oh here comes the river.

Its so the man can see both hands and verify you bet the way you should.

Save your money for a live game. Peace.

[7n7]

[ QUOTE ]
Thats correct. The cards don't exist until they are delt. This is why it is rigged. They lay claim to prevention of cheating, but that is BS. Its like folding 83, in holdem, and the flop comes 883.

Even pokerstars lets users know that hands occasionally get delt out to detect cheating, or collusion. They are called betting hands. Your expected to bet/call/raise your hand, then oh here comes the river.

Its so the man can see both hands and verify you bet the way you should.

Save your money for a live game. Peace.

[/ QUOTE ]

Anybody with a bit more technical response?

[IQUITyestarday]

It is not technical. But I totally understand what you are asking. I have been thinking of the same question since I gave online poker a shot back in 2003. I am certain that is the case.

It is like a live dealer shuffeling the deck in between every deal and muck.

Again, most sites promote this as an anti cheat type thing. I personally would like to see a site that has a virtual deck, once it has been shuffled thats it, the hand gets delt out without any more randomizing.

The concern there is could some one hack the server, and get the order of the deck, theyby knowing for certain what cards are to come. Even worse, could the site itself "set up" their own bots.

I doubt some one could hack the server and use that data in a timely mannar for an advantage in a game. Second, why would a poker site mess with an endless fruit basket?


The latter comment is still out in the open. Do the sites rigg it up or what remains to be proven...but certainly it has not been disproven.

Either way of RNGs function, I think if a site riggs it they rigg it. And thats that. Unfortunately.

[ADBjester]

[ QUOTE ]
Please excuse the noob-like question, but I couldn't really find a good answer when I used google.

First, why I'm asking:

Playing 7-card stud online and I decided to fold on 4th st. when all I had was a gutshot and 1 of my 4 cards was known to be dead. I folded. Dealer deals 5th st. to the remaining players and the person sitting behind me picked up the card that would have completed my gutshot.

Now, RNGs run constantly, correct? So, that's not necessarily the card I would have received had I called correct?

I was trying to equate this to real life and thought it might be similar to a live dealer constantly shuffling the deck until you say "call" and then he immediately deals you the top card or "fold" and he immediately deals the next player the top card. Is this a foolish analogy?

Richard Brodie (via FTP chat) told me that my thinking that it wouldn't necessarily have been the card I would have received was correct, but I'm trying to figure out why. If my fold or call were timed exactly why wouldn't I have received that card?

I'd assume that RNGs run off something a bit more random that time though. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Full Tilt uses a continuous shuffle, where the card is chosen just in time, in that fraction of a second before dealing.

PokerStars uses a static shuffle, where the entire deck is shuffled before the hand and the order of the cards to come remains unchanged from then on (just like a physical casino).

It doesn't matter which method a site uses, though. In either case, the next card off the deck is totally random, and equally likely to be any of the remaining cards.

Don't catch yourself "rabbit hunting", or playing "what if". Concentrate on making the correct decision based on the information you have at the time.

Jester