NL10 TP2K : lot of actions on flop

[Zanton]

Thank you for the analysis, very interesting.

Let's say I 3B preflop for $0.8, he'll call. Almost 10% preflop raise means he plays SC too (or not ? I'm interesting in a post giving pf raise/hand range). Same flop comes, I pot bet, he minraises (it seems he like that) : it's seems to me nitty to fold to his minraise. 67s AKs AJs could do this, even JJ TT and of course AA KK AQ imo. So you say you fold on his minraise ?

By the way, SB was the kind of guy who leads weak every raised pot to try to steal it yet or get some information if he can steal it on turn. It really means nothing from a flop play point of view.

[cubase]

[ QUOTE ]
Thank you for the analysis, very interesting.

Let's say I 3B preflop for $0.8, he'll call. Almost 10% preflop raise means he plays SC too (or not ? I'm interesting in a post giving pf raise/hand range). Same flop comes, I pot bet, he minraises (it seems he like that) : it's seems to me nitty to fold to his minraise. 67s AKs AJs could do this, even JJ TT and of course AA KK AQ imo. So you say you fold on his minraise ?

By the way, SB was the kind of guy who leads weak every raised pot to try to steal it yet or get some information if he can steal it on turn. It really means nothing from a flop play point of view.

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Here is Pokey's post on hand reading...

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...e=0#Post8629256

The first section lists some hand ranges and pre-flop percentages... In particular here is the one for 10%...

" 10% = 'pairs 66+, AK, AQ, suited aces, KQs, QJs' "

I agree, it is nitty to fold the KQs to the min-raise. What I recommended is that if you cannot laydown KQs unimproved when you get a lot of action on a Kxx or Qxx board, *you* should probably lay it down pre-flop. In other words, don't put yourself in a tough position. Simply fold it pre-flop and wait for a spot you feel comfortable with.

If you can lay it down when you do get action, then play it.

I'm also suggesting that we don't play hands necessarily because they are playable, but because we have a plan for the hand against specific villians, positions, stack-sizes, moods, etc.

Repeating myself, but in this case, the villian's range is pretty narrow. Knowing that, I know I'm trying to flop big. If I hit the Kxx or Qxx board and get significant action, I'm probably beat *against this villian* unless I have a specific read. Against another villian, my hand might be good and I might felt with it.

Based on his aggression, if he had a weak queen or something like JJ, TT, etc, me might just call. He probably lays anything he missed and underpairs. But when he gets aggressive, I'm thinking TPTK or better.

Hopefully I was a little clearer here. It's essentially the same reason we laydown AJ to a raise from a tight player. If we flop the Axx and get action, where are we at? Probably beat. If we flop the Jxx and get action where are we? Beat by overpair. We want to be the one raising AJ and dicating the action. Not calling and playing hit to win (except with PP's and occassionally SC's in position).

[Zanton]

[ QUOTE ]
Repeating myself, but in this case, the villian's range is pretty narrow. Knowing that, I know I'm trying to flop big. If I hit the Kxx or Qxx board and get significant action, I'm probably beat *against this villian* unless I have a specific read. Against another villian, my hand might be good and I might felt with it.


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This is the point. TY for all theses constructed posts, I think it's a leak in my game, and I'll try to correct it in future [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

FYI I said in chat I had KQ and folded, and he answered he had AQ.

[cubase]

[ QUOTE ]
Same flop comes, I pot bet, he minraises (it seems he like that) : it's seems to me nitty to fold to his minraise. 67s AKs AJs could do this, even JJ TT and of course AA KK AQ imo. So you say you fold on his minraise ?

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't address this in my other post. In this case, I probably fold (or call and then check/fold to good sized bet on the turn) and continue to watch him and take notes.

Again, his aggression isn't high. While *we* feel a min-raise is weak, I find that at 10NL a min-raise is "strong" to the players that use it. If you raise pre-flop and get min-raised, you are often looking at big hands even though it doesn't "feel" like it. They just don't know how to raise. Of course, we take advantage of that by getting great odds to call and snap their AK, JJ+, etc.

A min-raise is different than a weak donk bet in that, the weak donk bet usually means exactly that. A weak hand. TPNK, 2nd button, a draw.

A min-raise really does convey strength to these players in most cases. The usual disclaimers apply: Know thy villian. Take notes, read stats.

[tiger_hall]

after MP raises you then it is simply a fold