NL50- 99 in SB

[Jeff76]

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Question is, in this spot assume you have JJ or QQ, how would you proceed?

[/ QUOTE ]No, this hand plays the same.

[Sun Wukong]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Question is, in this spot assume you have JJ or QQ, how would you proceed?

[/ QUOTE ]No, this hand plays the same.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd have thought the same, amirite?

[Takethawaa]

Ok I removed 77-88 from his hand range. It seems it's correct to fold even if he calls an all in with a pair + draw. I'll go back to reading more and posting less, lol.

[RyanCMU]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Question is, in this spot assume you have JJ or QQ, how would you proceed?

[/ QUOTE ]No, this hand plays the same.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd have thought the same, amirite?

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats what I was getting at... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Jeff76]

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Ok I removed 77-88 from his hand range.

[/ QUOTE ]I think 77-88 are def in his range and he will call off his stack with them.

My point earlier was that if we call we have pretty much committed our stack but villain hasn't. Because of this, a slight equity edge isn't enough, since villain will always get it in with us when he is ahead, but sometimes fold when he is behind. Unfortunately, we will be getting it in either way unless villain gives up, and then we won't be getting full value against what we were willing to risk.

[threads13]

grunch

I usually just limp this hand in and take my huge implied odds.

I don't know that there are many top pair hands, without draws, that will play this way. He could have two-pair, a set, a straight if he has a made hand. I wouldn't completely take AA/KK out of his range, but they are very unlikely. I think he could also be in there with a straight draw.

Most of his hands are made hands and if he has a draw he may very well fire again on the turn for the rest of your chips. You are most likely going to get put AI on the turn. You have 41 behind after your flop bet that makes the flop 13. This means you are getting 54:41 on going AI. I don't think this hand is good enough to get AI with in this spot because I don't think you have anywhere near 50% equity.

[threads13]

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I stuck the hands in pokerstove with what i thought was his range. {33-88, 86s, 65s, 53s}

The equity range came to about 55/44 in favor of you.

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I think you might want to discount 88 and everything but the sets. I don't think he plays 86s like this THAT much at all. If 86s is there, why not 64s?

[KurtSF]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ok I removed 77-88 from his hand range.

[/ QUOTE ]I think 77-88 are def in his range and he will call off his stack with them.

My point earlier was that if we call we have pretty much committed our stack but villain hasn't. Because of this, a slight equity edge isn't enough, since villain will always get it in with us when he is ahead, but sometimes fold when he is behind. Unfortunately, we will be getting it in either way unless villain gives up, and then we won't be getting full value against what we were willing to risk.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to have to bookmark this and reread it when I have more time to think, because I've got a feeling this is something I'm going to want to digest.

[five4suited]

I'm trying to figure out just how much credit to give an unknown at the 50NL level, and right now I'm including 2nd-level thinking. I see villains think about what I have, but they don't think about what I think they have, and if they do they do so donkishly. An unknown's hand range imo is definitely donkish, as is some of their preflop play, let alone postflop (and sometimes, I'm that donk [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]).

In other words, I don't know why we're restricting villain's hand range to the extent that we are. If he can call with 1 limper from the cutoff to begin with, he could have AA or KK... or a whole lot of hands. So I'd fold this for that reason, not the much better one with a much wider range of applications quoted above. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] (tyvm for your input, pooh-bahs)

[relayerdave]

I don't think I like stacking off with 99 here vs an unknown...

Muck it and find a better spot...

QFT...