How to proceed? Slowplay or raise? - Page 2

Lufcmot · #11 05-30-2007, 12:48 PM

What happened in this hand was that I actually stopped and thought for a while how I was gonna get the max value out of it. But the 30 sec you've got before your hand is folded wasn't enough for a change out of line. So I did take the default and "safer" way, I raised.

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I am not going to post the hand because I don't want to "hijack" your thread and I've got my quota of flaming pictures and spewing "smileys" for a couple of days [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].

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I don't mind. In fact I wan't you to post it. I wanna see how you approached your top set.

Bona · #12 05-30-2007, 01:18 PM

As you wish. My regret here is that I let 'em up on the river (fear of the straight I guess)

SB showed down 22, UTG+1 showed down with A9o.
I don't know what Button had.

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. MP3 posts a blind of $0.25.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, 3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (11 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 raises, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 caps, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (13.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, Button folds, SB calls.

River: (16.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, SB raises, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 22.50 BB

bozlax · #13 05-30-2007, 01:26 PM

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Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. MP3 posts a blind of $0.25.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, 3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

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Your regrets should begin MUCH earlier than the river, Bona.

Lufcmot · #14 05-30-2007, 01:34 PM

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As you wish. My regret here is that I let 'em up on the river (fear of the straight I guess)

SB showed down 22, UTG+1 showed down with A9o.
I don't know what Button had.

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. MP3 posts a blind of $0.25.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, 3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (11 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 raises, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 caps, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (13.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, Button folds, SB calls.

River: (16.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, SB raises, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 22.50 BB

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What I see is that this hand was slightly different, in terms of that you had the pf raiser behind you. Your call is much "safer", you could assume that it was gonna be raised. And why no raise pf?

Bona · #15 05-30-2007, 01:47 PM

Yeah same question from Bozlax. Preflop was deliberate. I know I had 'em trapped preflop and you are correct to call my judgement in question there but at the time I was thinking OK lets see if we can win this multiway. I thought UTG+1 might just cap if I raised and it would be just me and him. Which , by the way, is pretty much what I was supposed to want to happen at that point. The reasons I am supposed to raise preflop are value (build the pot while ahead) and to thin out the fierld (AA is vulnerable) I know those things. And that is my default line. This time (and honestly probably too often recently) I was hoping to develop and win a large pot by keeping it multi way. Poor judgement? OK. Good hand to post? No. But maybe thinking about the reasons not to do it wil keep me from doing it too often in the future.

Xhad · #16 05-30-2007, 01:52 PM

Bona, when they start giving out Tricky Play medals for the player who most confused his opponents then you can start doing this, but as it stands the EV you get from a reraise FAR outweighs any EV gained from deception.

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I was hoping to develop and win a large pot by keeping it multi way.

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It would be an even larger pot had you reraised.

Bona · #17 05-30-2007, 02:06 PM

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Bona, when they start giving out Tricky Play medals for the player who most confused his opponents then you can start doing this, but as it stands the EV you get from a reraise FAR outweighs any EV gained from deception.

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Yes. I agree. I am going to start a 12 step program today [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]!!!

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It would be an even larger pot had you reraised.

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Not so clear to me in this specific hand. Results oriented? Yes. Guilty.

bozlax · #18 05-30-2007, 05:34 PM

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It would be an even larger pot had you reraised.

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Not so clear to me in this specific hand. Results oriented? Yes. Guilty.

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Uh, not for nothing, but all those trapped players had already called 2 cold. Without a specific read to the contrary, there's no reason to think they wouldn't call 2 more.