7 Stud Lowlimit High - General questions...

[jaystarrr]

Hi - me again [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Okay i have some general questions, so here goes:

How big a deal is position in 7 Stud - is it as importaint as in NLHE or even more maybe? (i never played FLHE so i dont know much about position in FL games)...

What hands is a call pf? What hands are raises - or reraises??

How is the optimal line if you're rolled up on a loose lowlimit board? And on a tight?

Should i, if i have a great draw/made hand - wait till 4-5 street to reraise if some donkey is going at it?

hope someone will help me get better at this and understand this wonderfull world of FL Stud [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[WhiteWolf]

One of the best things you can do right now is to read "Seven Card Stud for Advanced Players" by Sklansky/Malmuth/Zee or the 7 card stud section by Chip Reese in "Super/System I."

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Hi - me again [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Okay i have some general questions, so here goes:

How big a deal is position in 7 Stud - is it as importaint as in NLHE or even more maybe? (i never played FLHE so i dont know much about position in FL games)...

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It is important, but since it can change between betting rounds it won't be as dominate a concern as it is in Hold-em. The concepts of using relative position to either trap the field for extra bets, or to present players with having to cold call two bets are still important.

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What hands is a call pf? What hands are raises - or reraises??


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This is a huge topic. To vastly oversimplify, the good hands are trips, big pairs, live 3-flushes, and (to a lesser extent) live 3-straights. Medium to small pairs are playable in certain situations depending on their kickers (high kickers or straight-flush kickers to your pair are what you are looking for), your position, and the upcards already in/yet to act. In all cases, the liveness of your hand can greatly increase or decrease its value.

An important concept is that certain hands like to play with few opponents and certain hands like to play with many opponents. Big pairs and your best mid pair hands like it shorthanded, so complete and raise with those when the situation presents itself. When you do play these, be careful that it is likely your pair is the best one out there. If a tight player in early position completes with an A showing, you're better off throwing your pair of Kings away. Players calling completions with the second-best pair is probably the most common mistake I see on the low limit tables. The drawing hands (flushes, straights, low pair in the right situation) prefer that you see 4th street as cheaply as possible, so you limp with those and hope lots of people come along.

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How is the optimal line if you're rolled up on a loose lowlimit board? And on a tight?


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At low limits, if you always played these hands fast you would be playing close to optimal. Since trips are so uncommon, I wouldn't spend too much time analyzing your play in these scenarios.

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Should i, if i have a great draw/made hand - wait till 4-5 street to reraise if some donkey is going at it?


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If a lot of other players are coming along, and your draw is fairly live, you can raise for value on 4s and 5s. If it's just you and the donkey, just calling is probably best.

For made hands, just bet or raise, especially against donkeys. Especially raise if your made hand would like it heads up (ie your big pairs), and raising has a chance of shutting out the rest of the field.

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hope someone will help me get better at this and understand this wonderfull world of FL Stud [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

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Good luck, and once again - be sure to read those books!

[Andy B]

You've asked a really, really broad question here. You need to get 7CS4AP and read it a time or two. I have some basic pointers in the FAQ. I will say that it usually most profitable to play your big hands fast in low-limit games. If you have some specific questions, ask.

[TheGrinder]

I tried to play 7 stud following the advice in that book like "big pairs play best against a small number of people". It is certainly true but every time I raise the bring in with my big pair (almost) everyone just cold calls my raise anyway and you cannot play anything against fewer people. I guess the correct strategy in a game like this would be to wait for the best starting hands and jam the pot and hope you then catch something and make the best hand.

[Wahoo73]

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It is certainly true but every time I raise the bring in with my big pair (almost) everyone just cold calls my raise anyway and you cannot play anything against fewer people.

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What you have described is dependent on the level of stakes in the game you are playing and its structure.

In my experience, 3rd and 4th streets in stud games at FTP and PS play significantly different due to differences in structure, e.g., PS has low ante/high BI/low completion ratios, whereas FTP has moderate ante/low BI/high completion ratios. These structural differences mean that at PS limping-in is relatively more costly than it is at FTP, but calling a completion at PS is relatively less costly than it is at FTP. In other words, if a player is willing to limp-in at PS he is more likely to call a completion than he would if he was playing at FTP, where I see a lot more limping/folding to a completion.

Also, level of stakes makes a difference as to how effective a completion on 3rd street is likely to be at "thinning the field." Again in my experience, games below 1/2 are crapshoots with 3-4 "chasers" on nearly every hand, games in the 1/2 up to 5/10 levels will have a manageable mix of solid players, weak/tight players and calling station/chasers. At 5/10 and above you will generally find more solid players who generally respect raises on 3rd and 4th streets and will play accordingly.

I'm guessing the games you are describing in your post are at PS and are at the 1/2 level or below.

[Brad1970]

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It is certainly true but every time I raise the bring in with my big pair (almost) everyone just cold calls my raise anyway and you cannot play anything against fewer people.

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What you have described is dependent on the level of stakes in the game you are playing and its structure.

In my experience, 3rd and 4th streets in stud games at FTP and PS play significantly different due to differences in structure, e.g., PS has low ante/high BI/low completion ratios, whereas FTP has moderate ante/low BI/high completion ratios. These structural differences mean that at PS limping-in is relatively more costly than it is at FTP, but calling a completion at PS is relatively less costly than it is at FTP. In other words, if a player is willing to limp-in at PS he is more likely to call a completion than he would if he was playing at FTP, where I see a lot more limping/folding to a completion.

Also, level of stakes makes a difference as to how effective a completion on 3rd street is likely to be at "thinning the field." Again in my experience, games below 1/2 are crapshoots with 3-4 "chasers" on nearly every hand, games in the 1/2 up to 5/10 levels will have a manageable mix of solid players, weak/tight players and calling station/chasers. At 5/10 and above you will generally find more solid players who generally respect raises on 3rd and 4th streets and will play accordingly.

I'm guessing the games you are describing in your post are at PS and are at the 1/2 level or below.

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Wahoo,

I'd include the 1/2 stud tables at FT in that crapshoot comment also. And some of the 2/4 tables. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Brad1970]

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I tried to play 7 stud following the advice in that book like "big pairs play best against a small number of people". It is certainly true but every time I raise the bring in with my big pair (almost) everyone just cold calls my raise anyway and you cannot play anything against fewer people. I guess the correct strategy in a game like this would be to wait for the best starting hands and jam the pot and hope you then catch something and make the best hand.

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Sounds like you're playing at a table full of calling stations. It is possible to win monies at a table like this but when 7 people chase your split A's with K kicker all the way to the river...on every hand...expect to get drawn out on alot. Variance is a MF'er in games like these. I'd put $$$ aside for smashed monitors, broken keyboards, holes in the walls, etc if you plan to keep playing these kinda games.

Did I mention I tilt sometimes? [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]