NL200 - The tilt is close - Page 2

redCashion · #11 05-29-2007, 05:55 PM

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no one here asked your stats or how you think the other player is yet which are the most important keys. Is he observant, has he seen you tilting or losing the buy ins at this table? what are you running at, does he seem to recognize this, if so i 4 bet preflop here alot, if he isnt observing or seeing your tilt then its a different story completely

these details are a must.

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Next time, read my post [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

johnnyrocket · #12 05-29-2007, 05:55 PM

PS

if we are calling this flop with the intention of folding if we dont hit a set then its an obvious fold, if we think we are good then we need to raise the flop

calling is completely awful here, make up your mind and push or fold otherwise this call doesnt make much sense, it only does if he will check the turn a decent amount UI or fire another barrel

slickss · #13 05-29-2007, 06:05 PM

OP, what were your stats at that table? If you were raising a lot of pots, then I have no problem seeing him 3-bet preflop with JJ/TT - which could be why he is slowing down on the turn.

I always expect a bet on the turn if villain is holding AA/KK on a board like this - to get value out of lower pocket pairs (QQ-TT). When he checks, I am tempted to think that you have him beat - especially when you're this short.

I think I shove my remaining $120 here.

blankoblanco · #14 05-29-2007, 06:08 PM

This is interesting to me. I'd be surprised if this player checked AA or KK on the turn, but I still think I'd check behind for pot control

Stealthy · #15 05-29-2007, 06:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
PS

if we are calling this flop with the intention of folding if we dont hit a set then its an obvious fold, if we think we are good then we need to raise the flop

calling is completely awful here, make up your mind and push or fold otherwise this call doesnt make much sense, it only does if he will check the turn a decent amount UI or fire another barrel

[/ QUOTE ]

wtf????? Calling is perfectly fine.

dirtytricks · #16 05-29-2007, 06:26 PM

I dont see the big problem here. You cant be sure he doesnt reraise with AK.

Calling pre and calling flop is fine. Check turn and since he probably doesnt bet AK again on the river you can fold to a bet.

Only if he bets the turn you have a big decision.

kayfish77 · #17 05-29-2007, 06:29 PM

if youre calling his 3bet preflop it should be with the idea of trying to get it all in on boards like this.

slickss · #18 05-29-2007, 06:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
if youre calling his 3bet preflop it should be with the idea of trying to get it all in on boards like this.

[/ QUOTE ]
If he thinks he's ahead on the flop, then he must've thought he was ahead preflop as well. So, with your logic, he should've 4-bet preflop instead.

blankoblanco · #19 05-29-2007, 06:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if youre calling his 3bet preflop it should be with the idea of trying to get it all in on boards like this.

[/ QUOTE ]
If he thinks he's ahead on the flop, then he must've thought he was ahead preflop as well. So, with your logic, he should've 4-bet preflop instead.

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Not necessarily. If 4-betting PF will fold out JJ and TT but we can just call and get it awr-in with those hands on flops like this... well there you go

bilbo-san · #20 05-29-2007, 06:48 PM

Raise flop for value. Cmon guys. No one folds JJ on such a drawy flop.

You called pre-flop when you could have 4-bet. His range is way, way, way wider than QQ+ and AK. It's 5-handed FFS.

If you push the flop, pot is $284 and he must call $119.

So you'd be giving AK 2.4 to 1.

To whit:

Board: 9d 2h 3d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 71.010% 71.01% 00.00% 11248 0.00 { QcQs }
Hand 1: 28.990% 28.99% 00.00% 4592 0.00 { AKs, AKo }

So, if you push, and AK folds, THIS IS A PERFECTLY FINE RESULT. And let's not forget that:

a) His equity is greater if he has one [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
b) he's calling all day and twice on Sundays if he has A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Letting an A or K fall on the turn or river here is really [censored] terrible, because it kills action vs. JJ/TT AND it costs us the (very substantial) pot vs. AK.

It's way more important to protect our hand here whenever we are ahead than it is to worry about stacking off when we are behind.

If you are going to play this way post-flop, you should fold pre-flop. Otherwise, you are letting AK see all 5 cards every time you play a pot with him. Do you see why this is terrible for your long-term results?