was I out of line or is this innocent chatter?

[Wubbie075]

we're 4 handed in a hold'em tourney and in between hands I said something that no one actually complained about or even ancknowledged, but as I thought about it later I am wondering if it is somehow out of line...

the blinds just went up and I'm in the BB for 1/4 of my stack and I offhandedly mention that I'm almost certainly gonna be going all in... but later I realized that this could influence how ppl play their hands and might be inappropriate...

any thoughts?

[Gonso]

Not really that big a deal if the hand hasn't started, but slightly bad form in a live hand. It's probably pretty obvious to anyone who knows how to play a tournament that you're likely to push here, but still...

Imagine another player on the BB saying that, and you're UTG with aces... comments like that chase away your action.

[Wubbie075]

yeah that's what I figured.. not the worst thing in the world but somethin to avoid in the future...

BEAT: button ended up min raising me with 67o anyway and sucked out on my K9 lol

But it was my first live tourney cash so I'm not really complaining... go me!

[youtalkfunny]

As long as nobody has cards, this remark is completely harmless.

[bav]

Usually completely harmless. Imagine you're playing an event that's down to two good players and two total luckboxes who have NO idea what they're doing and are playing their first tournament. The newbs have no concept of being pot committed. Any experienced player is going to look around the table and see your stack size and know you're in push territory, but not the newbs. So you're helping them by telling them what to most players would be obvious. You'll find you can sometimes pick up a lot of blinds by pushing with any two before the players left at the table figure out what's going on...but not if you've told them ahead of time what you're planning.

I agree with "not the worst thing in the world but somethin to avoid in the future".

[ckmo]

I agree with bav, the only thing you might have done is point it out to somebody with no clue.

People are dumb. I was at the final table of a low limit tourney in Vegas without enough chips to cover both blinds. With me in the bb, it folded around to the sb and he chunked his cards in. No sane person would let that happen but I can almost guarantee if I drew attention to my stack there would have been no chance of it. I think 2 or 3 more people busted out before I even threw another chip in thanks to the free ride.

[PantsOnFire]

I don't think it was out of line at all. The only time this sort of thing is out of line is when you are not in a hand and others are.

So here is the fine line as I see it. Say you are UTG and BB has 1/3 of his stack posted. You get two cards and could say "I can't really steal here because BB will call with any two" and then you fold. However, if you fold and then make the same comment, I believe that is very out of line.

I'd love to hear opinons on this. The latter case is clearly against ettiquette. The former case may not be out of line at all.

In your case, I think you are simply giving away strategic information for players who might not otherwise have noticed your stack. That is probably -EV for you. This is along the same lines of telling a newbie with 5BB left that he should simply push all-in the next chance he gets (between hands of course).

Now some better players may have a problem with a table coach helping lesser players play better. But I don't think it's unethical or against any rules. It may simply only be -EV for the players who knew beforehand whatever bit of information was highlighted.

[MM_red33]

i talk. as long as ur not trying to influence someone directly then theres nothing wrong with it. The local casino are all regulars so you hear them talking all the time.

[MrBrightside]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think it was out of line at all. The only time this sort of thing is out of line is when you are not in a hand and others are.

So here is the fine line as I see it. Say you are UTG and BB has 1/3 of his stack posted. You get two cards and could say "I can't really steal here because BB will call with any two" and then you fold. However, if you fold and then make the same comment, I believe that is very out of line.

I'd love to hear opinons on this. The latter case is clearly against ettiquette. The former case may not be out of line at all.

In your case, I think you are simply giving away strategic information for players who might not otherwise have noticed your stack. That is probably -EV for you. This is along the same lines of telling a newbie with 5BB left that he should simply push all-in the next chance he gets (between hands of course).

Now some better players may have a problem with a table coach helping lesser players play better. But I don't think it's unethical or against any rules. It may simply only be -EV for the players who knew beforehand whatever bit of information was highlighted.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had a live table situation once where I was down to 6BBs, plus there were sizeable antes. (lost a hand to a guy I barely had covered). I was UTG, so absoultely anything was worthy of a push before I got the blinds. I had Q6 sooted and shoved. The guys fold and a guy in Mid position (who is a good player) looks like he really wants to call. He folds instead, but as he mucks, he looks over to the button and blinds and says "you guys realize he's pushing with any two cards here, right?"

I was really pissed and after I was called by A3o in the BB (by a tightie who I think would have folded without this guys' comment), I wore him out, who called the TD over. TD says "one player to a hand guys, you've been warned". I felt he should have gotten a time penalty. The guy was angling to get me busted because he viewed me as another good player he wanted gone.

[PantsOnFire]

[ QUOTE ]
He folds instead, but as he mucks, he looks over to the button and blinds and says "you guys realize he's pushing with any two cards here, right?"

I was really pissed and after I was called by A3o in the BB (by a tightie who I think would have folded without this guys' comment), I wore him out, who called the TD over. TD says "one player to a hand guys, you've been warned". I felt he should have gotten a time penalty. The guy was angling to get me busted because he viewed me as another good player he wanted gone.

[/ QUOTE ]
After reading this and thinking about it again, I need to alter my original view.

I now think it is inappropriate to speculate about another player's hand when the pot is multiway. In other words, if there are players left to act, even if I am in the hand, I cannot start an out loud hand reading session about a particular player and what he might potentially be holding.

It may different if the pot is multiway and there are several all-ins and now there is only me and one other opponent left who have chips to make an action. That's alot like heads up. Although, even then, the all-in guy with the nuts is not going to be too happy if I talk somebody out of calling his bet. However, if we are thinking about starting a side pot, I'm sure that nobody cares what we say to each other. As a matter of fact, all-in players without the nuts may be hoping a better hand is laid down here.

So I'd like to change my answer to "out of line". The only time you should be allowed to say this sort of thing is when you are heads up (and in the hand).