Taking a stand

[terp]

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If you've been folding a lot to his aggression, then I think a shove looks a lot like frustration. I think you'll be called by lots of hands you beat, and like someone said, even if he has a 7, he only has 6 outs.

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I disagree with this statement which is the main reason why I dont like the line. I think if we get it in we are not infront of alot except pair and str8 hands or a flushdraw which prob includes two overcards.

Shoving has merits but I dont think that its optimal. Its just he easiest line to take

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it's actually kind of cool in that not only is it the easiest, it's probably the most optimal as well.

[Oki-Oki]

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If you've been folding a lot to his aggression, then I think a shove looks a lot like frustration. I think you'll be called by lots of hands you beat, and like someone said, even if he has a 7, he only has 6 outs.

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I disagree with this statement which is the main reason why I dont like the line. I think if we get it in we are not infront of alot except pair and str8 hands or a flushdraw which prob includes two overcards.

Shoving has merits but I dont think that its optimal. Its just he easiest line to take

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it's actually kind of cool in that not only is it the easiest, it's probably the most optimal as well.

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I disagree but I see I am the only one

[Sqwrlking]

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If you've been folding a lot to his aggression, then I think a shove looks a lot like frustration. I think you'll be called by lots of hands you beat, and like someone said, even if he has a 7, he only has 6 outs.

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I disagree with this statement which is the main reason why I dont like the line. I think if we get it in we are not infront of alot except pair and str8 hands or a flushdraw which prob includes two overcards.

Shoving has merits but I dont think that its optimal. Its just he easiest line to take.

By shoving here we let the villian play pretty much perfectly against us.

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The problem is that pretty much any turncard is a scarecard, for both of us. Hero has no idea where he stands no matter what card comes, and if villain has a hand like A8, he's probably folding anything except an A or 8 turn. Pushing here is in my opinion not only by far the easiest choice, but also the only way to extract when you are ahead.

[Wolfram]

I thinik Sqwrlking sums it up nicely.

[Oki-Oki]

I think it totally depends on how much the villian is playing back. If hes some 55/45/8 idiot then i guess its ok. But if hes a 30/10/ish guy whos raised u twice this orbit on the flop or called a few C bets its vvvv bad.

[Oki-Oki]

post deleted by oki

[Oki-Oki]

ok having discussed this hand with ppl that are much better than me. I have resolved some of my issues with this hand.

I kind of like a shove but dont be fooled i dont think that its the best line. Its simply the easiest and closest to optimal.

Also this is NOT as shove for value, this is pretty much a bluff vs a guy whos range is mostly any-two cards. A shove serves the purpose of ending the pot now and giving us some metagame advantages. Ie it could make this guy even more aggro since he thinks we are now trying to run him over. Thus setting up some very profitable situations in the future. Or he could stop messing with our cont bets which is also helpful.

As I said this shove is not for value, we dont really dont want a call, but we also dont mind it (Its just not the best cas senario). But if we are called we are more than likely flipping or 30/70 behind. Sometimes we get lucky vs a super bad opponent and get it in as a 70/30 favourite. But imo that is pretty rare.

Just realise that shoving 99 here is on par with shoving a flush draw in terms of your expectation, if called. If u understand that and accept it a shove is not all bad.

[Kilillan]

we're shoving to protect our hand not for freaking value

If you're going to continue with this hand, and you should given his history and how wet this board is, shoving is the ONLY way to play this hand.

[jimmyhat1000]

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I think it totally depends on how much the villian is playing back. If hes some 55/45/8 idiot then i guess its ok. But if hes a 30/10/ish guy whos raised u twice this orbit on the flop or called a few C bets its vvvv bad.

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agree with this

[aislephive]

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I kind of like a shove but dont be fooled i dont think that its the best line. Its simply the easiest and closest to optimal.


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If it's "most optimal" then obviously it is the best line.