Ron Paul Negatives

[ShakeZula06]

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Yeah, I don't think "non-interventionist" means never get involved in anything going on with other nations ever no matter what. I think it is more of a good guideline that we dont cross without a good reason.

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Exactly. Non-interventionalism =/= isolationism. The nation building, dictator-propping, and CIA run coupes America's foriegn policy has been known for has caused death and destruction around the world, not to mention aiding the anti-American movement. The War in Iraq is a prime example.

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I agree. Did you see that headline today about Bush's "secret" plans for Iran? Does it ever stop?

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Interventionalism: Putting the Warfare into the welfare-warfare state.

[Chimera]

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His "non-interventionist" foreign policy is simplistic, naive, and was proven wrong about 1939.

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The problem with intervention is that it creates a never-ending cycle. Interventionists like to point to WWII as an example of a war that was made worse because we failed to intervene. What they fail to mention is that previous U.S. intervention was one of the primary causes of WWII.

The U.S. decision to get involved in WWI (the "war to end all wars" lol) was one of the main factors that contributed to the rise of Hitler, just like the current decision to invade Iraq is contributing to the growth of terrorism in the Middle East.

[Insert quote about those who don't learn from history]

[ShakeZula06]

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His "non-interventionist" foreign policy is simplistic, naive, and was proven wrong about 1939.

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The problem with intervention is that it creates a never-ending cycle. Interventionists like to point to WWII as an example of a war that was made worse because we failed to intervene. What they fail to mention is that previous U.S. intervention was one of the primary causes of WWII.

The U.S. decision to get involved in WWI (the "war to end all wars" lol) was one of the main factors that contributed to the rise of Hitler, just like the current decision to invade Iraq is contributing to the growth of terrorism in the Middle East.

[Insert quote about those who don't learn from history]

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+1

[NeBlis]

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By the way, NeBlis? Wheel of Time, or just coincidence?


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yeah WoT ... Its is actually NeaBlis in the books I think. About 10 years ago I misspelled it as a name to play MechWarrior online. It stuck, ive use it for alsorts of games and I use it off and on as a poker nick.

[Taso]

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His "non-interventionist" foreign policy is simplistic, naive, and was proven wrong about 1939.

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The problem with intervention is that it creates a never-ending cycle. Interventionists like to point to WWII as an example of a war that was made worse because we failed to intervene. What they fail to mention is that previous U.S. intervention was one of the primary causes of WWII.

The U.S. decision to get involved in WWI (the "war to end all wars" lol) was one of the main factors that contributed to the rise of Hitler, just like the current decision to invade Iraq is contributing to the growth of terrorism in the Middle East.

[Insert quote about those who don't learn from history]

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I'm sorry, but that is NOT the correct history. The United States, specifically Wilson, was against the harsh reperations of the Treaty of Versailles. It was the Europeans (British and French) that favored them. These aspects of the treaty are what allowed Hitler to garner support from the German people. Read his 25 point plan - http://www.schoolshistory.org.uk/ASL...pprogramme.htm - The main issues were regarding the Treaty of Versailles, again, not a result of US intervention, but of British and French.

And by the way - had these harsh conditions for the Germans been enforced, Hitler would have been stopped before he ever managed to create an army. Not that it truly matters here, the main point is that this was not US intervention.

Neblis - yeah, WOT is great, reading it again for the 2nd time now.

Edit: By the way, I decided to ignore the extremly ignorant sounding, insulting reply to one of my posts, the one who's author felt it neccesary to act like a caveman. If you can't discuss something without being insulting to the people you are talking to, adulthood isn't right for you. Oops, I've violated my own principle.

[NeBlis]

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the main point is that this was not US intervention.


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yes but intervention and nation building were the impetus. Failed bureaucratic solutions compounded the problem.


Rand AlThor for Prez!!!

[AlexM]

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That's not what I was saying. I'll try to explain it using your analogy.

I'm walking around and I see a bee hive, I poke it with a stick, I get stung. So I say, "Okay, I won't poke your behive anymore, my bad." But then, the bull that's in the yard sees me and he goes "moo, moo" which, roughly translated, means, "I don't like him walking on my grass...The Bees didn't like what he was doing, and they stung him, so maybe if I charge him he'll stop walking on my grass." So it charges me, and after removing a horn from my bum, I say, "okay, I won't walk on your grass anymore." So I climb into a tree but then the falcon thats in the tree goes, "ka-kawww, ka-kawww" which, roughly translated means, "I don't like him in my tree, let me see if what the bull and the bee did will work for me." And it starts pecking my eyes out.

And I fall and die.


Does that make sense? I'm being serious here, I think it's a decent analogy.

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You're right, it's a great analogy. If you keep invading people instead of just going the hell home, you die.

[Taso]

lol, what about the ants living in your home, and the cockroaches and crickets in the basement, or maybe the mice in the walls. They'll all be "emboldened" by your recent display of weakness.

[Bob Moss]

I was delighted to find out the college intern at my workplace is a Ron Paul fan. He digs all the libertarian economic policies, foreign policy, etc, but when talking about negatives, the first thing he mentioned was Paul wanting to legalize pot. Blew my mind.

[AzDesertRat]

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His "non-interventionist" foreign policy is simplistic, naive, and was proven wrong about 1939.

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The problem with intervention is that it creates a never-ending cycle. Interventionists like to point to WWII as an example of a war that was made worse because we failed to intervene. What they fail to mention is that previous U.S. intervention was one of the primary causes of WWII.

The U.S. decision to get involved in WWI (the "war to end all wars" lol) was one of the main factors that contributed to the rise of Hitler, just like the current decision to invade Iraq is contributing to the growth of terrorism in the Middle East.

[Insert quote about those who don't learn from history]

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+1

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I disagree with this--the main reason that Hitler rose to power is that there was no end to WWI but Germany was made responsible by the world and forced to pay for it. Even though Germany still had its territory intact, the French wanted to really punish Germany and economically, this was the catalyst which led to the rise of Hitler. Us entering the war had very little with the rise of Hitler.

If the Treaty of Versailles would have a little more even handed, this may have prevented WW II--so I blame the French. The French used German funds to pay for the Maginot Line (which worked really well, I might add [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]) and other reparations. This led to hyperinflation in Germany, growing dissatisfaction and eventually to the rise of the Nazi party in Germany. This can be paralleled to Afghanistan is some respects--I can expound on that if someone wants it.

As for the Middle East, I think you have to go to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and go from there. In many people's minds over there, they equate us with Israel and the killing that goes on. When the administration decided to take out Saddam, it strengthen the perception the US was anti-Arab and fueled the fires that were already there. It is really too complex to explain fully here, but the roots can be traced to 2 things: oil and Israel--and we are heavily involved in both.