Illegal Immigration Fallacies

[Misfire]

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I think I remember hearing in this forum that the 'center for immigration studies' was acually founded and it's core group run by... people with strong biases againt foreigners. It's interesting how they took on the name 'center for immigration studies' which is a seemingly benign and impartial name. If I didn't know better I would think that it was a cooincidence and they were not adopting that name to deceive people.

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What do you think of the name Politics Forum?

[Misfire]

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Welfare entitlements are not going away. It is time to leave such childish thinking behind. The reality is these illegals consume welfare entitlements at a rate higher than other groups. This cheap labor is NOT cheap. There is neither the political will nor the votes to reduce these entitlements...

The worst aspect of illegals is the assault on the traditional American culture. We are not getting new Thomas Paines or new Thomas Jeffersons. We are importing a culture that believes in a govt that acts like parents. Doling out welfare to the low producers of society in exchange for their votes. In turn they will have children that believe the same and their children will vote.

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It sounds to me like we're importing individuals who fit perfectly into American culture. Someone else made the comment that previous waves of immigrants were made up of people wanting to work and seek opportunity, which at the time was the prevailing American culture. No longer is that the case. They typical American is a nanny-statist who can't fathom not living off Uncle Sam's teat. Those coming here now, like their predecessors, are merely seeking a society compatible with their own life preferences. If this is a problem, the solution is to change America, not to wall off those who are attracted to it.

[bkholdem]

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I dare you to find more than a few "americans" who will even stoop to doing landcape work.

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This is economic stupidity writ large.

I could get Bill Gates to mow my lawn for the right price.

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I support your right to pay Bill Gates or anyone else whatever sum the both of you agree on. If you are for some reason interested in paying people born here more than they are worth 'in the market' with your own money I say go right ahead.

[bkholdem]

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Welfare entitlements are not going away. It is time to leave such childish thinking behind. The reality is these illegals consume welfare entitlements at a rate higher than other groups. This cheap labor is NOT cheap. There is neither the political will nor the votes to reduce these entitlements...

The worst aspect of illegals is the assault on the traditional American culture. We are not getting new Thomas Paines or new Thomas Jeffersons. We are importing a culture that believes in a govt that acts like parents. Doling out welfare to the low producers of society in exchange for their votes. In turn they will have children that believe the same and their children will vote.

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It sounds to me like we're importing individuals who fit perfectly into American culture. Someone else made the comment that previous waves of immigrants were made up of people wanting to work and seek opportunity, which at the time was the prevailing American culture. No longer is that the case. They typical American is a nanny-statist who can't fathom not living off Uncle Sam's teat. Those coming here now, like their predecessors, are merely seeking a society compatible with their own life preferences. If this is a problem, the solution is to change America, not to wall off those who are attracted to it.

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I know dozens of people who have paid 10K each to be smuggled here from south america. Of course none of them had that ammount prior to getting here so they had family already here loan them the money. As part of the smuggling process they walk across the dessert to get here.

Within weeks of getting here they all have 2 or more jobs and are working 80+ hours a week. They are all happy and content and do not complain. They work nights, weekends, holidays, split shifts, etc. They have great family values and cooperate and support one another. My social life has improved significantly since getting to know them and becoming friends with them. They are a great addition to this country, without question. I am proud to know them and call them friends.

People who walk across a dessert to get a job that a US Citizen welfare leech turns his nose up at are role models as far as I am concerned.

[bkholdem]

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I think I remember hearing in this forum that the 'center for immigration studies' was acually founded and it's core group run by... people with strong biases againt foreigners. It's interesting how they took on the name 'center for immigration studies' which is a seemingly benign and impartial name. If I didn't know better I would think that it was a cooincidence and they were not adopting that name to deceive people.

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What do you think of the name Politics Forum?

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So you did or did not know that the Center for Immigration Study was started by people who are bigots?

[samsonite2100]

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Welfare entitlements are not going away. It is time to leave such childish thinking behind. The reality is these illegals consume welfare entitlements at a rate higher than other groups. This cheap labor is NOT cheap. There is neither the political will nor the votes to reduce these entitlements...

The worst aspect of illegals is the assault on the traditional American culture. We are not getting new Thomas Paines or new Thomas Jeffersons. We are importing a culture that believes in a govt that acts like parents. Doling out welfare to the low producers of society in exchange for their votes. In turn they will have children that believe the same and their children will vote.

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It sounds to me like we're importing individuals who fit perfectly into American culture. Someone else made the comment that previous waves of immigrants were made up of people wanting to work and seek opportunity, which at the time was the prevailing American culture. No longer is that the case. They typical American is a nanny-statist who can't fathom not living off Uncle Sam's teat. Those coming here now, like their predecessors, are merely seeking a society compatible with their own life preferences. If this is a problem, the solution is to change America, not to wall off those who are attracted to it.

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I know dozens of people who have paid 10K each to be smuggled here from south america. Of course none of them had that ammount prior to getting here so they had family already here loan them the money. As part of the smuggling process they walk across the dessert to get here.

Within weeks of getting here they all have 2 or more jobs and are working 80+ hours a week. They are all happy and content and do not complain. They work nights, weekends, holidays, split shifts, etc. They have great family values and cooperate and support one another. My social life has improved significantly since getting to know them and becoming friends with them. They are a great addition to this country, without question. I am proud to know them and call them friends.

People who walk across a dessert to get a job that a US Citizen welfare leech turns his nose up at are role models as far as I am concerned.

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A-f'ing-men. I work with a bunch of Mexican illegals and they're w/out a doubt the least-entitled, most family-oriented, and hardest working bunch of people I've ever known.

[Misfire]

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People who walk across a dessert to get a job that a US Citizen welfare leech turns his nose up at are role models as far as I am concerned.

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Sorry, it probably sounded like I was anti-immigration. You're absolutely right, those you describe are role-models. Whether these are the exception or the rule, I'm not sure. As for complaints about people who come here just for the free monies (and who are supposedly destroying our culture), my argument is that A) we created the problem by creating an attractive environment, and B) it makes more sense to remove the offer than to restrict immigration (ensuring that those coming are exclusively those you described).

[NeBlis]

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Within weeks of getting here they all have 2 or more jobs and are working 80+ hours a week. They are all happy and content and do not complain. They work nights, weekends, holidays, split shifts, etc. They have great family values and cooperate and support one another. My social life has improved significantly since getting to know them and becoming friends with them. They are a great addition to this country, without question. I am proud to know them and call them friends.


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QFT X 134500000000000 !!!1!11!

[Chimera]

There's a lot of arguments here based on anecdotal evidence, so here's mine:

Of the immigrants that I've known, the quality has varied greatly, from lazy and obnoxious to hard-working and polite.

It seems obvious to me that the way to get the good ones to come here and the bad ones to stay away is by ending the handouts.

[timotheeeee]

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You cannot possibly the Ron Paul of Texas. Your dissertation is too ignorant of the facts and comes from someone totally out of touch with mainstream America.

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I keep hearing this argument that immigration lowers wages. In one sense, obviously, it does, if immigrants are willing to do a job for less, then residents must accept lower wages (although they will on average be paid at least some premium for things like speaking the language that lower their total cost of employment relative to immigrants).

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That's bull. I know of a person who owns a landscaping business. He hires all immigrants and 3 "Americans" to keep it looking good. Those 3 "Americans" are poor & uneducated and work under the supervision of one of his immigrants. He only needs one on each crew that speak english.
All of his immigrants have the proper paperwork, however, he knows that the majority of them presented false documentation. He makes more of profit thru the use of cheap labor, than the malls save in what they would have to pay if he had to hire Americans and pay them a decent wage.

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The problem with this argument, of course, is the central fallacy of all bad economic arguments, that it considers only the consequences of some policy (open borders would be the policy here) on one group (domestic workers that immigrants compete with), and only considers the short term effects of that policy.

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This is what proves your not Ron Paul. Nobody of any knowledge of the issue would know that there are so many more negative effects from the influx of illegals. All you need to do is visit a neighborhood that has been invaded by only 3 houses filled with them. You've got multiple families living in one house, trash in the yard, etc.
Then there is the crime........

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The segment of the population that the vast majority of illegal immigrants compete with represents a minority of the labor pool. There are almost no illegal immigrants doing white collar work.

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Again, so freaking wrong! There are thousands working in the computer tech industry. They come from countries such as India, etc. You see, they are smart enough to be able to live above ground, as they have mastered the art of infiltrating our workforce and appearing legal.

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Most of the service jobs they take are created by their presence;

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Most of which are state/federal, paid for by our taxes.

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Meanwhile, the consumers of the products produced by illegal immigrants is a much larger fraction of the populaton, most notably in food production (farm workers, food processing plants, etc.) and construction.

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I believe it was 1996, when a butcher in a meat processing plant made approximately $16.00 an hour. Today they make approximately $9.00.
In 1996, they were Americans. Today they are immigrants.
Savings passed on to consumers: approx. 10 cents a lb.

I'm done with you. If you are Ron Paul, you certainly fooled me when I saw you on television.....but then, so did the 1st Bush.

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I've counted 42 reasons why this post is hilarious.