Flush draw on a paired board. Extract or Get Away? 100NL

[effang]

i don't get it.

what's the question? why wouldn't you bet? i think you really should always be betting unless you face extreme aggression, or

2. this player is good enough at hand reading to put you on a flush
- this player is good enough to c/r
- this player knows that you are good enough to fold your flush

that's a lot of assumptions. it's the rare villain at NL 50 that's going to make a move to push you off your hand when he doesn't legitimately have it.

[King Spew]

[ QUOTE ]


2. this player is good enough at hand reading to put you on a flush
- this player is good enough to c/r
- this player knows that you are good enough to fold your flush



[/ QUOTE ]

I believe this villain to be such a playah. Good observations.

[Jay.Yang]

1st Question: I check behind on the Turn because our hand is strong. If he doesn't have boat, then our hand is WA; if he has a boat, then our hand is WB. Villain might call our Flop bet with anything because he think it's a c-bet, part of the steal attempt. But he is less likely to call us with air on the Turn bet.

2nd Question: I make PSB as the J is unlikely to improve his hand. I think he either have 66 or flush. I fold to any raise.

[five4suited]

Well, I'm guessing that you specified 100NL for a reason... 8BB pot before the flop, 20BB < turn, 40BB < river, and we each have 120BB left, so before we bet the river, we have to decide how much of our stack we're willing to risk and how much value we might be able to extract from villian. Since it's 100NL, does that mean that the 9 of 13 x-2 hands that we beat won't stack off? How about QQ-AA? Effang spelled out the unlikely parlay that has to come in for us to find a fold against a CR, but you said that it's true, so...

I make a 1/2 psb, hoping to get looked up by a smaller flush, x-2, or a broadway pair. If I get raised [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]... that's why I would only bet $20, so I can call a raise of up to $40 (I'm willing to risk half my stack, total).

It's hard to think about all this at the table, but math is important here imho. We're looking at betting 1/6 or 1/4 of our stack, and willing to lose how much... I'd feel comfortable losing up to 1/2, and I think villain could make a move, so I'd try to let him bet up to half his stack doing so. If I bet 1/4, he'll have to put in more than half if he makes a move, and more importantly, I have to seriously consider finding a fold if he does. I don't want to bet him into making a better play, he could just call the $20, and if he shoves... you tell me. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Are x-2 and AA-QQ stacking off? If he could put you on a flush and thinks you can fold it, then he can put you on QQ-AA and shove with his x-2 or smaller flush, no? The more I think about it, the more I might risk going broke here...

[King Spew]

[ QUOTE ]
First Question

You are a multitabling positional TAG.
Villain is a tad looser, but you think he has a good game and is aware of the game you play. He is a positionally aware player. You haven't seen him out of line or 'show' a bluff, but you have seen what you think are good 'moves' against others.... moves you would make in the same situation.

Effective stacks: 140BB

You have A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and raise 1st in on the button with a 4X raise and BB calls.

Flop(9BB) is 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

BB checks to you and you CBet ¾PSB. BB calls.


<font color="blue">Question 2</font>

Turn (23BB) is 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and villain checks. Hero bets ½PSB. Villain calls.



[/ QUOTE ]

<font color="red">Question 2A</font>


River (46BB)is J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and villain checks.

Hero bets 23BB, villain puts out 70BB.

<font color="green">Question 2B </font>

Hero bets 23BB, villain PUSHES.

88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888 8888888888
This is a spot I get into on occaision and honestly have a difficult time answering the bell.

What hands does villain put me on?

He does know I will three barrel once in a blue moon.
He does know that I can fold.

I've got 46BB of mine in the pot with 94BB behind.

Does anyone call the 70 and fold the push?
Fold both?
Call both?

Like I said, I get into this bind alot because I juice it up from the button. And I really don't have a clue.

Hep a bro outta dis mess, please [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]




(The only deviation for me is I would probably put alittle more in on the turn at the table)

[five4suited]

So the questions are, you bet 1/2 the pot and ~1/4 of your stack, and he either bets 3/4 or all of his (and your) stack?

[King Spew]

Short answer as I'm off to lala land...

The river reraise: can you draw a line in the sand? Call up to $X, fold anything larger?

(Meant to make the difference a tad bigger between the two. Maybe having villain put $60 instead of $70......)

[warbler]

I think this hand is VERY read dependant.

I win 45-65% of flops I see which means that after my normal c-bet and and a normal/smallish turn bet in BSB play my hand is not very clearly defined. Therefore i'm more likley to be up against a hand I can beat. That said his play is screaming boat think about it c/c c/c c/r-allin. Thats normally a big one however he might think that a smaller flush/trips or over pair is big againt our standard c-bets.

I want to see his hand.. But like I said I think this hand is very read(as in player profiling) dependant.

The other thing, as our hand is quite unclear the river play is harder, a lot harder and if you're wrong it's big.