What If There Is a God? - Page 4

Archon_Wing · #31 05-26-2007, 12:30 AM

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What if there is a God? What if money fell from the sky? What I could shoot laster beam from my eyes? Why should I bother answering any of these?

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I'm not asking you to consider the question for the purpose of computing some kind of pascal's wager. I'm not asking you why you don't believe in God. I imagine you have your reasons. I encourage you to argue those reasons in an attempt to convince others you are right. And of course, if you are right those who disagree with you can be seen as ridiculous. But when you attack them for being ridiculous based on the presumption that you are right, I must object. You are then logically offbase.

PairTheBoard

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Personally, I would never insult someone merely for being religious. I don't think everything has to be proven. You don't have to prove you love someone, or that you like a certain flavor of ice cream. Demanding you prove it would be asinine. I would just accept it, and personally I'm not a big fan of the LOLZ Christians R DUM club. Personally I respect the religious who have gone through the effort of looking seriously at what they believe in rather than just listening to what their parents and preachers have told them. The thing about religion that annoys me are the many blind followers who know less about the Bible than I do. But it would be not very objective to make a generalization about all religous people though... (There's more than one religion, and it's not all Judeo-Christian either!

I'm actually an agnostic so I actually take crap from both theists and atheists; I can understand your position though. ;o But for now, there's no point for me to consider God in any argument. What am I trying to say is "we don't know" just means "we don't know" -- not very much to convince anyone of anything. I do fancy the existence of a higher being sometimes, but I feel it is logical for an atheist to not even bother.

revots33 · #32 05-26-2007, 01:03 AM

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But when you attack them for being ridiculous based on the presumption that you are right, I must object.

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The fact that humas have created gods to explain the unexplainable is not assumption. It's fact. Are you arguing that the gods of thunder and lightning and volcanos and the sun and fertility etc. were NOT created to explain the unexplainable? If so I think you are wrong.

Perhaps you think your subjective experience of god is more enlightened than primitive man who used angry gods to explain hurricanes and volcano eruptions. But that does not mean your god does not exist merely to explain what is unexplainable *TO YOU*.

Maybe you feel that your subjective experience tells you that your god does not exist simply to explain the unexplainable. I could easily counter that you are fooling yourself. Which you must admit, is no less probable than your god actually existing.

PairTheBoard · #33 05-26-2007, 01:06 AM

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PTB,

Your main source for believing in god is the bible. Is that correct?
If that is the case, why do you believe it to be true?

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This is my point and the point of the OP,

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But when you attack them for being ridiculous based on the presumption that you are right, I must object. You are then logically offbase.

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If you want to say something about that point, say it. If you want to argue with someone about why they should or should not believe whatever, I suggest you start a thread to discuss it.

PairTheBoard

Phil153 · #34 05-26-2007, 01:26 AM

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Aren't most of the Atheist attacks on Religion based on the assumption that there is no God?

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The Jesus story is hilariously weird - up there with Xenu and his hydrogen bombs blowing up the bodies of the dead millions of years ago. Those are the stories I have a problem with. I'm all for people believing in a higher power. I'm totally against people believing that power can be petitioned for a new car, or your friend to get well from cancer. I'm totally against people believing in heaven and hell, in some wanker called Jehovah dishing out punishment to the "bad people", or God creating the earth 6000 years ago. Such ideas are absurd.

By all means be a theist. But leave out the weird stories, broken logic, and cowardice that goes with it. If you look closely, you'll realize that that's what most atheists attack. Theists have trouble seeing this because they've have conflated these ideas and impressions with their own feelings about existence.

I've rarely seen an atheist attack simple belief in a higher power or something like Buddhism. The universe is indeed a mystery, and we don't know. But we do know that most religious stories and interpretations are a sad pile of nothing. Even theists agree with that last point

luckyme · #35 05-26-2007, 01:35 AM

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And of course, if you are right those who disagree with you can be seen as ridiculous. But when you attack them for being ridiculous based on the presumption that you are right, I must object. You are then logically offbase.

PairTheBoard

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I don't believe a cow can jump over the moon. People who believe that on the (non)evidence they present are being ridiculous.

Acowism is 'right' by the nature of right and wrong, it's not an assumption of any kind. We wouldn't be able to function as an entity if we didn't have the "I'm from Missouri" approach to what we encounter.

This thread is built on the 50/50 fallacy. The cow either can jump over the moon or it can't so it's an even fight and the Acowist need grant some status to the cowists.

That's what "what if the cow can jump over the moon, then where is the basis for the acowist attact?" translates into. If you have a video, show it. If you have hoofprints lodged 18 ft into the ground from the landing, point them out. Until then, claims of cowists are ridiculous, and saying, "let's assume cows can do that" doesn't add anything to the exchange. Nor does "well, they can in my spirit world."
see above

luckyme

PairTheBoard · #36 05-26-2007, 01:50 AM

I realize that is your view. You see those tenets of Religions to be ridiculous. I don't object to your making arguments to support that description of them. In fact, I may make those same arguments myself. But I think the point of my OP comes out in your conclusion here,

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But we do know that most religious stories and interpretations are a sad pile of nothing.

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The proclamation that they are ridiculous because "we know" they are ridiculous, is not an argument. It is a proclamation of your premise.

PairTheBoard

MegaloMialo · #37 05-26-2007, 02:14 AM

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The proclamation that they are ridiculous because "we know" they are ridiculous, is not an argument. It is a proclamation of your premise.

PairTheBoard

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All right. Can you defend your beliefs? I did not understand your above reply to me.
I am not sure i understand anything this early in the morning so if you can, be clear.
Why do you believe in the bible?

PairTheBoard · #38 05-26-2007, 02:20 AM

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The proclamation that they are ridiculous because "we know" they are ridiculous, is not an argument. It is a proclamation of your premise.

PairTheBoard

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All right. Can you defend your beliefs? I did not understand your above reply to me.
I am not sure i understand anything this early in the morning so if you can, be clear.
Why do you believe in the bible?

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My beliefs have nothing to do with this. It is a point of logic. I suggest you reread the thread and think about it a while.

PairTheBoard

MegaloMialo · #39 05-26-2007, 02:27 AM

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The proclamation that they are ridiculous because "we know" they are ridiculous, is not an argument. It is a proclamation of your premise.

PairTheBoard

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All right. Can you defend your beliefs? I did not understand your above reply to me.
I am not sure i understand anything this early in the morning so if you can, be clear.
Why do you believe in the bible?

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My beliefs have nothing to do with this. It is a point of logic. I suggest you reread the thread and think about it a while.

PairTheBoard

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I will do that but this is for my own curiosity that i would like to know. Can i get answer or not?

luckyme · #40 05-26-2007, 02:33 AM

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My beliefs have nothing to do with this. It is a point of logic. I suggest you reread the thread and think about it a while.

PairTheBoard

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I failed logic. Remind me which principle of it says we should grant the other guys claim any credence because he says he has evidence. Then when we ask for it, he says, "trust me, I have it, I've experienced it".

I've been thinking of taking a logic course but if they teach that, I'd own so much Florida swampland that I'd have to develop a liking for alligator flesh.

Claims do not gain status merely by being made.

luckyme