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#11
05-25-2007, 05:33 PM
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Re: PPA New Lobbyist to throw PStars, FTP, Absolute under a bus
The sites never said anything about H.R. 4411 or about the UIGEA, so it seems to be consistent that they wouldn't say anything about the IGREA either. I forget where, but I remember reading several sites say that they would welcome regulation in exchange for the legitimacy that accompanies it.
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#12
05-25-2007, 06:02 PM
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Re: PPA New Lobbyist to throw PStars, FTP, Absolute under a bus
[ QUOTE ]
The sites never said anything about H.R. 4411 or about the UIGEA, so it seems to be consistent that they wouldn't say anything about the IGREA either. I forget where, but I remember reading several sites say that they would welcome regulation in exchange for the legitimacy that accompanies it. [/ QUOTE ] This is not true. Email any major site. Ask them what they think of the UIGEA. You will get a response stating how bad it is etc. Ask them for their specific opinion on the IGREA and you will get a generic 'welcome regulation in exchange for the legitimacy' response which is significant in its non committal. You should then ask where all the PPA membership drives have gone. PPA membership = 500K, I think I read a PokerStars rep saying they were close to 10m accounts. The sites can't be the turkeys voting for thanksgiving. Like I said, this is somewhat irrelevant, but it does demonstrate that a major resource (the sites and their financial power) are not necessarily going to be pushing in exactly the same direction as the community..
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#13
05-25-2007, 06:16 PM
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Re: PPA New Lobbyist to throw PStars, FTP, Absolute under a bus
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] The sites never said anything about H.R. 4411 or about the UIGEA, so it seems to be consistent that they wouldn't say anything about the IGREA either. I forget where, but I remember reading several sites say that they would welcome regulation in exchange for the legitimacy that accompanies it. [/ QUOTE ] This is not true. Email any major site. Ask them what they think of the UIGEA. You will get a response stating how bad it is etc. Ask them for their specific opinion on the IGREA and you will get a generic 'welcome regulation in exchange for the legitimacy' response which is significant in its non committal. You should then ask where all the PPA membership drives have gone. PPA membership = 500K, I think I read a PokerStars rep saying they were close to 10m accounts. The sites can't be the turkeys voting for thanksgiving. Like I said, this is somewhat irrelevant, but it does demonstrate that a major resource (the sites and their financial power) are not necessarily going to be pushing in exactly the same direction as the community.. [/ QUOTE ] My guess is that the sites don't expect IGREA to pass this year. Rather, they expect IGREA to serve to generate political support sufficient to bog down any new anti-poker legislation (HR 4777 was anti-poker). This would serve to maintain the status quo for the poker sites for this year. As next year is an election year, IMHO it seems unikely that HR 4777 will be introduced then. So, IGREA can serve to give the current U.S.-facing sites two more years. Then, once we get our legislation through, these sites can figure out how to get licensed. As the sites not offering sports betting are not breaking any laws now, I don't see a huge problem. Also, they'll have a head-start on the new U.S.-based sites, giving them a few more years of profits.
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#14
05-25-2007, 06:26 PM
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Re: PPA New Lobbyist to throw PStars, FTP, Absolute under a bus
[ QUOTE ]
My guess is that the sites don't expect IGREA to pass this year. Rather, they expect IGREA to serve to generate political support sufficient to bog down any new anti-poker legislation (HR 4777 was anti-poker). This would serve to maintain the status quo for the poker sites for this year. As next year is an election year, IMHO it seems unikely that HR 4777 will be introduced then. So, IGREA can serve to give the current U.S.-facing sites two more years. Then, once we get our legislation through, these sites can figure out how to get licensed. As the sites not offering sports betting are not breaking any laws now, I don't see a huge problem. Also, they'll have a head-start on the new U.S.-based sites, giving them a few more years of profits. [/ QUOTE ] I work in the industry, but don't have huge visibility on long term matters such as this. However, I would disagree that the sites see it that way. My current reading (from the inside looking out) is that the sites are effectively stuck with their head on the block waiting to see how the regulations and the UIGEA pans out. Certainly there has been a large number of projects postponed until that outcome is known, and hiring has practically stopped. I also think none of the sites are under any illusions as to how US licencing would pan out for them. It would be the Harrahs of this world allowed into the market first and the Full Tilts a distant second. If this happens after a time when there is no US market to speak of, then they at a huge disadvantage and this is a scenario they are desperate to avoid - it is probably even the worst case scenario for them.
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#15
05-25-2007, 06:51 PM
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Re: PPA New Lobbyist to throw PStars, FTP, Absolute under a bus
[ QUOTE ]
This is not true. Email any major site. Ask them what they think of the UIGEA. You will get a response stating how bad it is etc. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, IF YOU ASK THEM, they will say they're against it. But why didn't they send out emails to all their players asking them to contact their reps? No poker site ever encouraged me to do that. A few days before the UIGEA passed, I emailed all the poker sites asking them why they aren't screaming at their customers to do everthing they can to stop it. They all just gave me some cookie cutter response about "we are against it and blah blah blah." But they never actively did anything. I highly doubt I'll be hearing anything about IGREA from the poker sites.
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#16
05-25-2007, 06:55 PM
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Re: PPA New Lobbyist to throw PStars, FTP, Absolute under a bus
I think that is two different issues. The poker companies were totally naive as to the potential of the UIGEA and have paid accordingly.
Now that they are politically aware, the lack of public support for specific items of potential legislation to fix the situation (at least from our perspective) is significant.
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#17
05-25-2007, 08:21 PM
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Re: PPA New Lobbyist to throw PStars, FTP, Absolute under a bus
[ QUOTE ]
Then, once we get our legislation through, these sites can figure out how to get licensed. As the sites not offering sports betting are not breaking any laws now, I don't see a huge problem. Also, they'll have a head-start on the new U.S.-based sites, giving them a few more years of profits. [/ QUOTE ] You may have missed Al D'Amato being quoted as saying UIGEA created a " criminal culture ". It started a paragraph about the online poker industry. (I don't agree that UIGEA created such, but Al does; and it seems like they are looking for a handy bus! I assume he was referring to the businesses, because if he was calling the members criminals...wow.) Anyway, I just read your stunning declaration that the online poker only sites aren't "breaking any laws". Should you and Al get your talking points aligned?
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#18
05-25-2007, 08:29 PM
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Re: PPA New Lobbyist to throw PStars, FTP, Absolute under a bus
[ QUOTE ]
Should you and Al get your talking points aligned? [/ QUOTE ] Why? I don't even have talking points. I'm just a poker player trying to encourage other poker players to fight back. [ QUOTE ] You may have missed Al D'Amato being quoted as saying UIGEA created a " criminal culture ". It started a paragraph about the online poker industry. (I don't agree that UIGEA created such, but Al does; and it seems like they are looking for a handy bus! I assume he was referring to the businesses, because if he was calling the members criminals...wow.) [/ QUOTE ] He's entitled to his opinion. What's that got to do with me? [ QUOTE ] Anyway, I just read your stunning declaration that the online poker only sites aren't "breaking any laws". [/ QUOTE ] What laws are poker-only sites breaking?
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#19
05-25-2007, 08:36 PM
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Re: PPA New Lobbyist to throw PStars, FTP, Absolute under a bus
[ QUOTE ]
What laws are poker-only sites breaking? [/ QUOTE ] The ones that you want poker players to "fight".
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#20
05-25-2007, 08:47 PM
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Re: PPA New Lobbyist to throw PStars, FTP, Absolute under a bus
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] What laws are poker-only sites breaking? [/ QUOTE ] The ones that you want poker players to "fight". [/ QUOTE ] I recommended that we fight UIGEA, but I don't believe poker sites are breaking that law. While UIGEA doesn't make any online gambling illegal that wasn't already illegal, it had the effect of shutting out many major poker sites and Neteller to U.S. players. I'm also concerned that the DOJ will go after poker-only sites under their interpretation of the Wire Act (plus RICO and money laundering) once they're done with big sports betting sites. What federal laws do you think poker-only sites are breaking?
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