$11; TPTK, opponent starts betting

Jolle · #1 05-25-2007, 10:56 AM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO (t1200)
Hero (t1510)
SB (t1450)
BB (t1300)
UTG (t1810)
UTG+1 (t1460)
MP1 (t1310)
MP2 (t1990)
MP3 (t1470)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
5 folds, CO calls t30, Hero raises to t120, 1 fold, BB calls t90, CO calls t90.

Flop: (t375) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, CO checks, Hero bets t200, BB folds, CO calls t200.

Turn: (t775) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
CO bets t120, Hero calls t120.

River: (t1015) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
CO bets t90, Hero calls t90.

Final Pot: t1195

No real reads, but villain hadn't done anything out of line. I had a few problems with this hand. The first was the flop bet, is is the right size? I wanted it to look as much as a standard continuation bet as possible, in order to get the most value from worse hands. Second were the turn and the river. His smallish bets seemed like a nuts / near nut hand to me, so I decided to play the hand very careful. Was this correct, or is his turn bet a blocking bet more often than a strong hand?

simonpoker · #2 05-25-2007, 10:58 AM

turn bet might be a draw or middle pair.but river?I have no idea.

mmorpg · #3 05-25-2007, 11:03 AM

bet more on the flop
push turn

Jolle · #4 05-25-2007, 11:08 AM

By pushing the turn we're representing exactly what we have. Will we ever get called by a weaker hand (except for KQ maybe)?

Guizones · #5 05-25-2007, 11:15 AM

The problem is that you are giving him the chance to outdraw you very cheap here. As played he probably has a middle pair, on even TPGK, and thinks you are weak (with your CB in the flop) maybe with something like AJ or AK, and he could be drawing too...

So bet more the flop. You will have better decisions after. Push turn.

Sparta45 · #6 05-25-2007, 01:04 PM

Jolle....I understand you want it to look like a c-bet, but there are a few problems with that logic

1) Most players, especially in the $11's, won't recognize that "it looks like a c-bet". Plus, even if they do recognize that it looks like a c-bet, that doesn't mean they are going to have the balls to play back at you.

2) There are 2 villians in the pot with you, not just 1. Furthermore, this is a pretty drawy flop. So you should really just bet at least 300 on this flop. 350-375 would be fine too. But 200 is too small.

In regards to your concern that you won't get called by worse hands if you shove the turn.....you will OFTEN get called by worse hands. People will call you with TP worse kicker or middle pair, or even a draw. Lots of people suck at poker and they pay you off with all sorts of junk. And even if they don't call you, the pot is already very large. When there is a large pot and you have the best hand, it's generally best to just take it down.

Jolle · #7 05-25-2007, 01:16 PM

Thanks for all replies, I'll certainly bet more in the future in similar situations.

Results: He won the pot with J8o.

Philo · #8 05-25-2007, 01:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
By pushing the turn we're representing exactly what we have. Will we ever get called by a weaker hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes! By the same players who call pfr's with J8.

simonpoker · #9 05-25-2007, 01:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Jolle....I understand you want it to look like a c-bet, but there are a few problems with that logic

1) Most players, especially in the $11's, won't recognize that "it looks like a c-bet". Plus, even if they do recognize that it looks like a c-bet, that doesn't mean they are going to have the balls to play back at you.

2) There are 2 villians in the pot with you, not just 1. Furthermore, this is a pretty drawy flop. So you should really just bet at least 300 on this flop. 350-375 would be fine too. But 200 is too small.

In regards to your concern that you won't get called by worse hands if you shove the turn.....you will OFTEN get called by worse hands. People will call you with TP worse kicker or middle pair, or even a draw. Lots of people suck at poker and they pay you off with all sorts of junk. And even if they don't call you, the pot is already very large. When there is a large pot and you have the best hand, it's generally best to just take it down.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think most players on $11 tables will get it as a C-bet, most there know it.

Sparta45 · #10 05-25-2007, 01:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I think most players on $11 tables will get it as a C-bet, most there know it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, I'm sure the J-8 fellow recognized his bet as a c-bet. He's obviously a highly skilled player.