Please verify my mistake(s)

gogolion · #1 05-24-2007, 04:37 PM

This is my first post here, so please be gentle [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. Here's my hand. My first possible mistake was my PF raise: I should either call or raise bigger, right? But as played, my next mistake was that my bet after the flop should have been bigger, like maybe .75Pot, to scare off str8 draws. Same problem with my turn bet as well, maybe should have been PSB. And finally, I should not have called his river bet, knowing he hit his flush.

Okay, now that I type it all out, this may have been the worst hand I ever played! None the less, please verify my analysis is correct or add additional comments. Thanks!

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.02/$0.05 Blinds - 8 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

SB: $11.70
BB: $3.27
UTG: $13.22
UTG+1: $9.64
MP1: $7.26
Hero (MP2): $9.98
CO: $7.11
BTN: $1.49

Preflop: Hero is dealt 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (8 Players)
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to $0.20, MP1 folds, Hero raises to $0.35, 4 folds, UTG+1 calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.77) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $0.30, UTG+1 calls $0.30

Turn: ($1.37) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $0.30, UTG+1 calls $0.30

River: ($1.97) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
UTG+1 bets $2.00, Hero calls $2.00

Pot Size: $5.97 ($0.25 Rake)

UTG+1 had K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (a flush, Ace high) and WON (+$2.77)
Hero had 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and LOST (-$2.95)

jmremote · #2 05-24-2007, 04:45 PM

1. Your min raise preflop didn't give you any information about villians hand.
2. Turn bet was should have been closer to pot size (.70cents)
3. River call was not good, you can only win to a lower straight or bluff

KurtSF · #3 05-24-2007, 05:40 PM

1. You're right preflop. You can either call with position on the raiser and see a flop, or you can raise more hoping to isolate and take the lead in the hand. Minraise was bad.

2. You're right about the flop and the urn as well. Both bets should have been bigger, close to PSBs.

3. I think the call on the end is OK. Top end of a one-card straight is not bad, and there's certainly no way to know he's holding the flush (let alone the nuts). Especially in the micro limits you will find people doing silly things like slowplaying aces like this, or getting tricky with a set.

Either way, the lesson is to size your bets more appropriately.

gogolion · #4 05-24-2007, 05:44 PM

Thanks for the input. It's good to know I recognized my mistakes upon analysis. Now I just need to recognize them before I make them!

What about my bet on the flop? Too small or okay? My overpair and SD look good, but maybe I should bet bigger to scare off overcards?

After reading various 2+2 forums for just a few days I think the most important thing I've learned is the importance of sizing your bets/raises according to the size of the pot vs. the size of the blinds. It makes sense: since I base my calling decisions on pot odds, I should also size my bets to drive out drawing hands that are using the same though process. For some reason I never thought about it that way until I started reading here.

BTW, this hand was played before I started reading 2+2 forums.

doctorjae · #5 05-24-2007, 06:41 PM

welcome to the forum...this is the first time i've replied to a hand, but i think to get better we're gonna have to keep replying to and posting hands for analysis...i digress

i believe the bets do need to be larger, around the size of the pot because players on a flush draw, on the flop have odds of 4 to 1 to hit it(i think), so in order for villain to be correct in calling, he/she would need to have pot odds of 4 to 1...with a pot sized bet, he/she is only getting 2 to 1 pot odds, therefore if he/she calls, it is a mistake and that's what we want...now, that doesn't take into consideration implied odds, or other issues such as hitting one of the 3 aces or kings but strictly speaking of a flush on the flop i think what i've said is correct...and really i don't think the odds that i've stated are applicable to this situation b/c it was a backdoor flush..

anyway, that's my input

KurtSF · #6 05-24-2007, 06:47 PM

So call or raise more preflop, yes. But, as played...

The flop is terrific for you. The gutshot straight draw shouldn't really influence your thinking - its unlikely to come in and even if it does its a one-card straight and is susceptible to higher straights, etc. The fact that you have an overpair to the board makes your hand very strong. As I said, bet close to a pot sized bet. $0.50 to $0.75 is the range you want to be in.

On the turn you have a choice. Its unlikely the Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] helped the villain. Another large bet is in order here to keep out draws. But since you have position there is an alternative. Since you only have 1 pair, even though the Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] probably didn't help him, you don't have too big a hand and don't want the pot getting too big either. So in position, when the villain checks to you on the turn, you can check behind and see the river for free.

If you do this, you will have to call a lot of river bets. You just showed weakness and will induce a bluff a lot of the time, so you will have to call if he bets on the river. Betting again or checking behind will depend on the situation and the opponent, and you don't ever want to do it if you think the villain is on a draw.

Its great that you are noticing yourself making mistakes. Keep working on improving and it won't be long until you are noting others making mistakes, and that's when you really know you're catching on.

skelm · #7 05-24-2007, 07:03 PM

I don't mind the bet on the flop but I think you should have lead out and bet something like $1.10 on the turn - Keep the bets sizeable and make him pay for that draw.

Although it doesn't matter so much I still would have raised it to .45c or more pre-flop. I don't really like the raise to .35c since it really doesn't do anything but build the pot and someone with a medium pocket pair could still come along for the ride.

KurtSF · #8 05-24-2007, 07:13 PM

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Although it doesn't matter so much I still would have raised it to .45c or more pre-flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

More, for sure. $0.75 is OK.

Or, of course, just call.

skelm · #9 05-25-2007, 12:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Although it doesn't matter so much I still would have raised it to .45c or more pre-flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

More, for sure. $0.75 is OK.

Or, of course, just call.

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I don't really like a call here - What are your thoughts on it?

Steveinho · #10 05-25-2007, 01:19 AM

imho, i think you need to be much more straight forward with your betting in micro-limit games...

raising pre-flop is fine... i mean, there's complaints about you not getting information... and that may be true... but it did a good enough job of isolating the opponent in question

really... i find it nearly impossible to put him on that nut flush... you weren't aggressive enough in your betting... he had some decent odds calling... he had 4-1 to call after a flop that he totally missed but held two overs in...

you bet the same amount on the turn, which the odds were even better since he had the nut flush draw... so he has to make that call

river, hard to put him on that since you have no idea what he's calling with, i have no problem with the call