Response to a (live) three bet--weak or reasonable?

[uclaben]

Pre-flop he three-bets and you just call. At this point, are you planning on check-folding any flop without a 9?

How tight is this guy? No chance of AQs, AJs, 88, 77 here? After he checks the flop?

[Carmine]

We don't have to make this hand more difficult than it really is. OP has the best read on this player. OP says he doesn't 3-bet a worse hand than 99. Villian is not folding a better hand. If he will than C/R the turn. If not just fold.

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Heck, it sounds like you should've just open folded when you didn't spike your set.

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Is that really wrong agaisnt some players Clark.

[Clarkmeister]

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We don't have to make this hand more difficult than it really is. OP has the best read on this player. OP says he doesn't 3-bet a worse hand than 99. Villian is not folding a better hand. If he will than C/R the turn. If not just fold.

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Heck, it sounds like you should've just open folded when you didn't spike your set.

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Is that really wrong agaisnt some players Clark.

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If it was that simple and the read was that good, OP wouldn't have posted the hand. He'd have simply gone home and slept well knowing that he made the right play.

The evidence is twofold. First, the hand got posted. There's doubt, it's not an ironclad read. Second, he made the comment basically saying "he's never taken a shot at me". This is completley untrue, but it's something that overly weak tight players tell themselves all the time, day after day, about better players who selectively rob them.

[Carmine]

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We don't have to make this hand more difficult than it really is. OP has the best read on this player. OP says he doesn't 3-bet a worse hand than 99. Villain is not folding a better hand. If he will than C/R the turn. If not just fold.

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Heck, it sounds like you should've just open folded when you didn't spike your set.

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Is that really wrong agaisnt some players Clark.

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If it was that simple and the read was that good, OP wouldn't have posted the hand. He'd have simply gone home and slept well knowing that he made the right play.

The evidence is twofold. First, the hand got posted. There's doubt, it's not an ironclad read. Second, he made the comment basically saying "he's never taken a shot at me". This is completley untrue, but it's something that overly weak tight players tell themselves all the time, day after day, about better players who selectively rob them.

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LOL. I can tell you've been around the block a few times Clark. You're describing the exact tactics I use against certain individuals. Set up the illusion. Gain their trust, their respect and then steal with just the correct frequency to show a profit. Inevitably I'll get caught with my hand in the cookie jar and have to change gears but I'll run with it for as long as I'm allowed.

Good points Clark.

[jfk]

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Second, he made the comment basically saying "he's never taken a shot at me"

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Not to get all semantic and technical, but I said,

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I don't recall the guy ever taking a shot at me.

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So all this may be going on,

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You're describing the exact tactics I use against certain individuals. Set up the illusion. Gain their trust, their respect and then steal with just the correct frequency to show a profit.

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...but I've don't recall his showing down hands which didn't make sense when in pots together.

I see this guy cold call a little too much, even with the KJ QJ, 66 type hands. As I know a cold call is not beyond him, I figured the three bet significantly tightened up his range and that I was too big a dog against that range to call down in a 4 2/3 BB pot.

He showed 88 before getting pushed the pot. I learned something.

Appreciate all the replies.

[Bad Lobster]

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LOL. I can tell you've been around the block a few times Clark. You're describing the exact tactics I use against certain individuals. Set up the illusion. Gain their trust, their respect and then steal with just the correct frequency to show a profit. Inevitably I'll get caught with my hand in the cookie jar and have to change gears but I'll run with it for as long as I'm allowed.

Good points Clark.

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I concur. Did villain have a red face and ten legs? Because he sounds exactly like me, and after two rounds of check I'd take a shot at this pot with anything.

[daveT]

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He showed 88 before getting pushed the pot.

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You do a lot of raising PF, or it seemed like you do.

[jfk]

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You do a lot of raising PF, or it seemed like you do.

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I don't open limp much especially as the games are not usually full. There are a lot of walkers and pai gow junkies which means that the table mean is usually about seven.

My open raise standards would be fairly standard TAG with adjustments for a shortish table. I don't think I'd ever limp 99 here.

88 was a pip or two lower than what I'd put this guy on for a three bet. Range wise I figured I was cooked as I felt quite sure he'd cold call or fold AQ and AJ.

When he showed the 88 he said he put me on AQ or AJ. I nodded.

[amulet]

if you don't think he had a king, and you think there is a decent chance that he folds if you bet the turn (and even the river too) i would take the shot. i understand the fold, and you are likely behind to a larger pocket pair, but the KK on the flop is scary for him. if you bet it (twice) it is difficult to call. if he 3 bets with jj, tt, qq, aa, at least two of those are easy folds on this board, both because of the board and because you could have a hight pocket pair. you know your opponent, and have to go with your feel at the table. however, on this flop if you think he doesn't have a king, you should seriously consider taking a shot. how does he call here with a hand like jj, you could have a k or a larger pair? the fold is ok, but taking the pot is nice too.

[jfk]

I think a turn check raise is the only move that may have shaken him loose of a bigger pair.

The downside is that he'd figure me to four bet QQ+ and often JJ or AK so whatever I do will look a little suspicious. Plus, he knows that I might get induced to bet with overs following his flop, so he could safely call TT-QQ. He could've had AA, but I wasn't getting that sense.

He was ascribing to me the same range on which I was putting him. Had I called the turn, he probably checks behind on the river.

I believe he thinks I fold too many hands. I feel he calls down too light and cold calls too much preflop. In this instance his play was better.