river against maniac?

[bigjoet]

fantastic 15/30 at the Wynn because several ppl are on tilt due to the maniac, who've shown the ability to raise any 2 preflop and on flop on a whim... i cant really describe a range... maniac is hitting and running over table...

maniac thinks hero is tight... the only hand i showed against him was TT that I 4 bet in a 4 way pot... another hand, the maniac showed capability of 3 betting multiway on flop w/ 1 oc, no draw on Q83, 2spade flop... he ended up winning that pot w/ 1 card king high flush...

i'm 2 to maniac's left... the laggy (decent) woman next to him has been trying to isolate him for a while...

present hand:

preflop: loose limper up front, maniac raises in MP, hero 3 bets in highjack with KJo... all fold to limper, who calls... maniac 4 bets, all call...

pot: 7 BB

flop:
833 rainbow
check to maniac who bets, both hero and limper call...
pot: 8.5 BB

turn:
9, putting 2 spades on board...
checked through...

river:
6s
checked to maniac who bets, hero??? feedback on every street is welcome...

[andyfox]

Ok, so it sure seems like he has unimproved high cards, A-K or A-Q or somesuch, and that had they both been spades he would have continued betting on the turn. But what would he be putting you on that you would check the turn? Or would he not even get that far in his analysis?

[bigjoet]

i agree that i think he had some kinda unimproved high cards but i'm not sure if a bluffraise could get him off a big ace or kqo since turn was checked through... he called down A7o, UI, on K high rag board against the laggy woman to his left...

[jba]

I think you should bet the turn.

[Nate tha\\\' Great]

I'd probably hold my nose and raise the flop.

[cgrohman]

Me too

[bigjoet]

since he was able to 3 bet w 1oc and no draw, wouldnt it be kinda sick that he could 3 bet w/ both hands that i beat and ones i dont beat... then what do i do?

[Carmine]

OP doesn't give a range or other info on limper but what do you all think of Hero's PF play as it's too late to get this HU with the maniac.

Another PF question here. What if Maniac is first in for a raise and we are next to act with this same hand but with a table that doesn't allow us to isolate all that often.

Postflop is tough. What can we read into maniacs 4-bet here. Is this the first time he has been 3-bet PF. If there is a possibility were are ahead on the flop then I prefer a raise to try and get it HU and I'll get to SD ACAP.

The suggestion to bet the turn I hated at first then not. Truth is without knowing both opponents better I cannot decide the correct course of action.

Many of these problems seem to stem from pushing that marginal PF hand in what might not have been the best situation considering the characters involved.

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd probably hold my nose and raise the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

For sure.

I was thinking there might some merit in a river raise too. Get the other dude, and possible maniac, to fold an ace.

[bigjoet]

i've only sat down for an hour or so... the only hand i'd seen from the limper was when he cold-called MP+1 raise w/ 55 in MP+2... i then 3 bet behind them... he bet right into me after flopping a boat on qq5 board...

maniac had seen quite a few 3 bets behind him by the laggy woman...

i agree that you might be correct about pushing marginal hand pf; however, the hand is too good to fold against maniac.... what would u do with kqo? a8o? both of which figure to be ahead of the random junk that maniac raises...

the reason i checked turn was to see showdown for just 1 more bet... he called down A7o b4 HU on a non-paired board, so i don't see why he'd fold Ax here...

i didnt like river raise because it seemed way too fishy that an aggressive player i would play everything so passively until a non-scary river..