is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ? - Page 9

kleath · #81 05-21-2007, 02:26 PM

Its funny how multiple people in the respective fields have told balto he is FAR off in his estimations on starting salaries, yet he chooses to completely ignore them and use them as data. I guarantee you Poker is going to be a FAR better profession for Bax than nursing will, regardless of what you THINK they make.

RandALLin · #82 05-21-2007, 03:42 PM

i just find it hilarious the mtt player he picked to say doesn't make enough is probably the richest out of all of us even if it is from backing.

Jeff76 · #83 05-21-2007, 04:33 PM

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Is being a poker player easier than being a software developer ? Figure a seasoned contract developer makes $100 hr. That's $200K annual at 40 hrs a week. At 60 hrs/week that's $300K. With zero risk. And that's not "best in the business". That's just a seasoned expert developer.

[/ QUOTE ]Being a software developer is DIFFERENT from being a poker pro. I LOVE developing software and find it more rewarding work than playing poker. I prefer for my poker to be "for fun". I am not everyone.

The quick answer to your question is "yes". People aren't paying their rent with imaginary checks, and there are plenty here who play full time. Argue all you want, it doesn't really matter when plenty of online tournament pro's are cashing checks.

baltostar · #84 05-21-2007, 04:39 PM

Amazing how many smart people on this thread completely miss my point.

My point is not that Bax does or doesn't "make enough". I was attempting to establish an expected $/hr for one of the best players. That's a valid meter for understanding how profitable online MTT can be.

My point is that amount of profits those at the top-of-the-game are pulling in totally incongruous with what I would have expected, and, given the top-heavy nature of any gambling puruit, implies a relatively modest existence for middle-of-the-packers.

It's just surprising, that's all, with all the TV coverage, all the emphasis on money, lifestyle, babes, bling, etc. -- especially by some of those who frequent these forums and post photos of their cars and houses and brag about their trips, etc.

BigAlK · #85 05-21-2007, 05:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Amazing how many smart people on this thread completely miss my point.

My point is not that Bax does or doesn't "make enough". I was attempting to establish an expected $/hr for one of the best players. That's a valid meter for understanding how profitable online MTT can be.

My point is that amount of profits those at the top-of-the-game are pulling in totally incongruous with what I would have expected, and, given the top-heavy nature of any gambling puruit, implies a relatively modest existence for middle-of-the-packers.

It's just surprising, that's all, with all the TV coverage, all the emphasis on money, lifestyle, babes, bling, etc. -- especially by some of those who frequent these forums and post photos of their cars and houses and brag about their trips, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think more of us get your point than you think. You comparison to the NBA wasn't a bad one (due to the top heavy nature of the money in that or other pro sports). Baseball might be a better comparison since it is possible for a greater number of people to make a reasonable living in the minor leagues with an outside chance of moving up. However I'd like to suggest a better comparison would be trying to make a living as a musician/songwriter.

For a lot of people this has the perceived lifestyle you mention above. For those at the top of the music business this is, to some degree, reality. But the overwhelming majority of those making their living this way are like the middle-of-the-packer poker players you describe, living a modest lifestyle. In fact they're quite likely to be living hand-to-mouth. Most who chase the dream never reach it. Some never chase the dream of millions and "the cover of the Rolling Stone ". They have a more modest (and realistic) view. Making a modest living doing something they enjoy and freedom that the nine-to-fiver doesn't have is good enough for them. They may actually make it big, but that isn't an absolute requirement for them to persue this path.

Although I think your point is a good one, it misses the point of why someone might choose to do this. I'd be the first to advise someone considering this to stay in school and get their degree before going full time. It's rarely bad to have a plan B. But I can't fault someone for giving it a shot if they truly think they have what it takes. Your point, that the odds are against them reaching the top, is valid. That goes for any field.

My point and the point of a large number of posters taking a contrary view to yours' is that you're overstating what is likely to happen taking the path of a more traditional career. Making big money, whatever that is to you, is tough to do in any field. If it weren't it wouldn't be considered big money.

mlagoo · #86 05-21-2007, 05:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Amazing how many smart people on this thread completely miss my point.

My point is not that Bax does or doesn't "make enough". I was attempting to establish an expected $/hr for one of the best players. That's a valid meter for understanding how profitable online MTT can be.

My point is that amount of profits those at the top-of-the-game are pulling in totally incongruous with what I would have expected, and, given the top-heavy nature of any gambling puruit, implies a relatively modest existence for middle-of-the-packers.

It's just surprising, that's all, with all the TV coverage, all the emphasis on money, lifestyle, babes, bling, etc. -- especially by some of those who frequent these forums and post photos of their cars and houses and brag about their trips, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

wpr101 · #87 05-21-2007, 05:23 PM

Hey baltostar, how do you keep a fool in suspense?

I will post the answer to this question a week from now.

betgo · #88 05-21-2007, 05:43 PM

There definately are plenty online tournament pros. Just check out pocket fives or official poker rankings.

Now do Doyle, Phil, Chip, or Patrick play mostly online tournaments? The answer is no. The stakes are not that high, even with mulitabling. The really top players mostly play cash games. Some of them play $10K+ live tournaments.

Kirkrrr · #89 05-21-2007, 11:26 PM

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[ QUOTE ]
There's a recent article on PocketFives about tournies v. cash and what a relatively raw deal tournies are.

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yes that was a well written, eye opening look at online poker

[/ QUOTE ]

For the love of god LINK PLEASE!!!

Kirk

Rizen · #90 05-21-2007, 11:45 PM

It's no one else's business how much I make, but being a retired software engineer turned poker professional I probably have a fair amount of perspective on this.

First off, your hourly rate for online poker players is VASTLY underestimated. I won't give my hourly rate, but I will say that $100/hr is WAAAAAY too low, and that's just for online MTTs. That being said, I probably play a lot less hours than 95% of the online MTT professional.

I understand that for OP this is all about money and hourly rate, but I would like to add there are a lot of non-monetary benefits that go with being a (primarily) online poker pro. The biggest for me is getting to watch my kids grow up. I get to spend almost 100% of my children's waking hours available for them, and honestly you can't put a price on that. I also don't answer to anyone else.

Also, through smart investing, poker diversification (live tournaments, live and online cash games), and other opportunities that being a 'pro' has opened up to me, my hourly rate on actual time worked is something I'm very happy with, and something I think i was a good 5-10 years away from achieving through traditional means (ie through my career path).

Bottom line, I cannot speak for any other poker professionals out there. I personally am pretty sure my hourly rate is not the 'very top end' for a professional player, and it is much greater than the #s your assuming. Part of this is because you assume 3 hrs/tournament, when in reality it is more like 90-120 minutes per tournament for online. You are probably also underestimating at which point you have to shut down other tables or let them dribble out. I shut down any cash games etc when i get super deep in a tournament, but I can easily handle playing 3-4 tournaments at a time even if one of them is a final table, I just can't handle the different dynamics of cash vs MTTs and play at my best.

I think OP overestimates how much you can make in other professions, but I won't pretend to be an expert there.

I know it's not the point of this post, but I love what I do and the freedome it gives me. At this point in my life i wouldn't choose any other profession, although that may change once my kids get old enough for school.

-Rizen