$200 Live Tourney - 1st Level - QQ in BB

[sbj]

Live Tourney full table.
1st Level (50/100 blinds) - everyone has roughly 10K.

UTG seems solid and UTG+1 is loose/aggressive. Button seems solid as well. No read at all on CO.

Here is in BB and has been dealt QQ.

UTG raises to 350.
UTG + 1 calls 350.
4 folds.
CO calls 350.
Button calls 350.
SB folds.
Hero ? (1550 in pot when action to me)

How much do I raise?
If you see the flop, what's your plan if an Ace comes or a K comes.

[Soulman]

Raise to 2.5k, evaluate based on action behind. If UTG raises less than all-in, puke and (probably) call, call an all-in. Call any other pushes, barring insane action.

If flat called by one player, bet any K/A flop - less chance of KK/AA, and they would probably push AK before flat calling. 3.5k bet seems ok.

[Shocker101]

I would raise the pot hopefully get one caller. Continous bet the flop any card hits about half the pot and if called I would put him on an ace or king that he hit I would check it down as long as I don't improve.

[sbj]

I raised to 2000 and was called by UTG+1 (the loose aggressive one).

Thus the pot was not ~$3500 and both players had roughly 8000 left. The flop came AKx and I lost my nerve and checked. The loose aggressive player then bet the pot and folded.

Was I weak to check/fold? If only an Ace or a King, I would have felt more comfortable CB'ing. But with both I couldn't muster the will to do it.

[Cornell Fiji]

pf a raise of 1750-2500 is fine. I would be on the bottom end of the range but that is a matter of taste more than anything.

What do you think UTG+1 is calling UTG's raise and then calling off 20% if his stack with? His range is weighted heavily toward pocket pairs that are not AA/KK. You absolutely must lead this flop for ~3000 as the bet needs to work less than half the time for it to be +ev. Also, it is pretty unlikely that UTG+1 will make a play on you on this board as he would have to shove and this looks like it hit your pf raising range pretty hard.

Lastly, I can't figure out for the life of me why you are concerned about a king on that flop.

[Soulman]

[ QUOTE ]
pf a raise of 1750-2500 is fine. I would be on the bottom end of the range but that is a matter of taste more than anything.

What do you think UTG+1 is calling UTG's raise and then calling off 20% if his stack with? His range is weighted heavily toward pocket pairs that are not AA/KK. You absolutely must lead this flop for ~3000 as the bet needs to work less than half the time for it to be +ev. Also, it is pretty unlikely that UTG+1 will make a play on you on this board as he would have to shove and this looks like it hit your pf raising range pretty hard.

Lastly, I can't figure out for the life of me why you are concerned about a king on that flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think more like 2500 is fine to not get a multiway pot if loose guy calls and others get tempted, but that's not really a big concern anyway. If he's loose enough to call the big bet with worse hands that seems better to me though. Still, smaller bets are certainly ok as well.

Otherwise agree with Cornell here.

[sbj]

[ QUOTE ]
pf a raise of 1750-2500 is fine. I would be on the bottom end of the range but that is a matter of taste more than anything.

What do you think UTG+1 is calling UTG's raise and then calling off 20% if his stack with? His range is weighted heavily toward pocket pairs that are not AA/KK. You absolutely must lead this flop for ~3000 as the bet needs to work less than half the time for it to be +ev. Also, it is pretty unlikely that UTG+1 will make a play on you on this board as he would have to shove and this looks like it hit your pf raising range pretty hard.

Lastly, I can't figure out for the life of me why you are concerned about a king on that flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah. I am afriad that I agree. Monsters under the bed syndrome. It was not so much that a K came but both of the two overcards came that freaked me out.

My logic was that it was early in the tourney and I did not want to knck myself out so soon but I clearly misplayed it.

Thanks for the feedback. Will reinforce the lesson, so to speak.

[Cornell Fiji]

[ QUOTE ]

My logic was that it was early in the tourney and I did not want to knck myself out so soon but I clearly misplayed it.


[/ QUOTE ]

The only thing that you should be concerned with is making +EV decisions.

Sklansky makes the argument that he can pass up small edges early in tournaments if it means that he won't have to put 'his tournament life' at risk. Many brilliant players have systematically debunked the Sklansky strategy and have shown that passing up marginal ev situations in order to not get knocked out of a tournament is almost always (sometimes when you are close to a pay jump it is appropriate to pass up on small cEV edges) wrong.

I believe that there is a Raymer thread (might be in the archives) where he laid out a proof for going all in with 22 on the first hand of the WSOP if you know that your opponent has AKo. There have also been tens of thousands of other posts by 2p2ers who won tournaments other than the WSOPME that prove the same thing.

In general you are much better off concentrating on making +ev decisions and not considering your 'tournament life.'

[WarDekar]

Agree with everything Cornell has said, you need to c-bet this.

[sbj]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

My logic was that it was early in the tourney and I did not want to knck myself out so soon but I clearly misplayed it.


[/ QUOTE ]

The only thing that you should be concerned with is making +EV decisions.

Sklansky makes the argument that he can pass up small edges early in tournaments if it means that he won't have to put 'his tournament life' at risk. Many brilliant players have systematically debunked the Sklansky strategy and have shown that passing up marginal ev situations in order to not get knocked out of a tournament is almost always (sometimes when you are close to a pay jump it is appropriate to pass up on small cEV edges) wrong.

I believe that there is a Raymer thread (might be in the archives) where he laid out a proof for going all in with 22 on the first hand of the WSOP if you know that your opponent has AKo. There have also been tens of thousands of other posts by 2p2ers who won tournaments other than the WSOPME that prove the same thing.

In general you are much better off concentrating on making +ev decisions and not considering your 'tournament life.'

[/ QUOTE ]

You are, of course, absolutely correct. When i play live tourneys, I sometimes fall into the trap of trying thinking about staying alive. I essentially drove two-hours roundtrip to enter the tourney and hate the idea of busting out in the first 20 minutes but.... there is always a cash game waiting for me at the casino. :-)

Thanks again.