Are the Yankees done for the year? - Page 4

trapsetter · #31 05-20-2007, 01:35 PM

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trapsetter,
Please explain what is wrong with the Clemens move.

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No problem. I'll lay it out for you:

(1) $28 million is ridiculously too much money for not even a full season out of a player about to turn 45. For that type of money, even in a 1 year deal, I want someone who is an elite, top notch superstar that will make a major difference on my team.

(2) Even if he were priced more reasonably, Clemens is unlikely to help the Yankees all that much, even if he pitches reasonably well. They need to find some relief pitchers, they need Damon to start hitting, they need Hughes to come back and play well. Clemens pitching well, which isn't a guarantee, would be nice, but it won't make or break their year.

(3) The clause that Clemens doesn't have to travel with the team if he's not scheduled to start is absolutely absurd. I would never want a player on my team who expects that, let alone someone i'm paying $28 million. This team is desperate for some chemistry and the primadonna attitude won't help things.

Bottom line: this was a knee-jerk reaction move that reeked of desperation. The Yankees are going nowhere fast, and this move epitomizes that.

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There's a lot wrong with this post;

To (1); Clemens has been the single best pitcher in the National League over the last two years and it's not really all that close. In addition, he provides a major boost in the paraphernalia and ticket sales that a superstar (your word) name brings in.

To (2): Clemens will help as much as any pitcher not named Johan would. No one player, pitcher or position, can make the kind of difference you're talking about in baseball. Yes, the Yanks have flaws, but it's obvious that this is a team that plays to win every year, and in order to do that in 07, they needed to make the biggest move they could to bolster their staff. This was it.

To (3); it's not absurd. He's a forty-five year old man who's been away from his family for two decades and who's made being with them a priority. He's playing because he still can, but put to a choice he's going to his kids' ballgames instead of pitching his own, so a happy medium was required.

As chemistry goes, it's a ludicrous claim that he'll wreck it as a) Their chemistry isn't exactly harmonious to begin with and b) he's obviously loved on that team. Petite, Giambi and Jeter were all relentless in text messaging and phoning him and his relationship with Joe Torre is very good. Roger brings a winning attitude to a clubhouse that needs one right now and will make the other pitchers better by his example. I don't love the guy (Toronto fan here), but that's all pretty obvious. Oh, and If you still don't want the best talent available for your team despite all that, that's your perogative, but it suggests you don't comprehend baseball reality; every GM in the gamewould have made the deal if they had the bankroll.

Lastly, calling this a knee-jerk reaction is pretty stupid. They'd been looking for him to join them from the start of the season and wanted him there as soon as possible, the exact opposite of knee-jerk. To say making a move for the best unclaimed piece of talent available reeks of desperation makes yours a biased, illogical post.

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Clemens by far the best pitcher in the NL over the past two years, and it's not even close? That's not true. He was great in 2005, but you could certainly make a case that Pedro was better, as he had the better WHIP. And 2006? He played basically a half season, and went 7-6. Sure, his peripherals were good as usual, but he didn't pitch enough to warrant the type of runaway distinction you're giving him over a 2 year run. Regardless, I still say he's not worth $28 million.

We'll agree to disagree on the non-travel clause. I don't see how Clemens' family is any more important than a 36 year old pitcher's family. I have never heard of this sort of deal being extended to any aging superstar that signs on with another team in any sport. For $28 million he should be devoting himself to that team. If spending more time with his family is that big of a priority to him, he should simply retire. He certainly doesn't need the money at this point.

Also, despite his (probably steroid-induced) freakish denial of father time, you cannot deny that at 45 (turns 45 in aug), he has a high collapse rate. That risk needs to factor into the price.

If my post is stupid and illogical, explain to me why many diehard Yankee fans I know (I have lived in NYC for 33 years) echo my sentiments. The Yankees are overpaying and overbabying this guy. It's a joke.

THAY3R · #32 05-20-2007, 01:39 PM

Can you please stop saying $28 million?

mason55 · #33 05-20-2007, 01:43 PM

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We'll agree to disagree on the non-travel clause. I don't see how Clemens' family is any more important than a 36 year old pitcher's family. I have never heard of this sort of deal being extended to any aging superstar that signs on with another team in any sport. For $28 million he should be devoting himself to that team. If spending more time with his family is that big of a priority to him, he should simply retire. He certainly doesn't need the money at this point.

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This is simpile market economics here. If the Yankees are willing to give all this to Clemens you can't fault him for taking it.

Also it's not like the money they give to Clemens is keeping them from spending money on other players. There's no salary cap and they're not the KC Royals here.

trapsetter · #34 05-20-2007, 01:44 PM

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Can you please stop saying $28 million?

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Whatever.

trapsetter · #35 05-20-2007, 01:47 PM

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We'll agree to disagree on the non-travel clause. I don't see how Clemens' family is any more important than a 36 year old pitcher's family. I have never heard of this sort of deal being extended to any aging superstar that signs on with another team in any sport. For $28 million he should be devoting himself to that team. If spending more time with his family is that big of a priority to him, he should simply retire. He certainly doesn't need the money at this point.

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This is simpile market economics here. If the Yankees are willing to give all this to Clemens you can't fault him for taking it.

Also it's not like the money they give to Clemens is keeping them from spending money on other players. There's no salary cap and they're not the KC Royals here.

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Just because they can afford it doesn't mean it was a good deal.

As for the comment about the travel clause being a function of economics, I think when you get to a certain level in life you should stop being on the take constantly. If he takes his commitment to the Yankees seriously, he shouldn't be asking for this totally unusual type of provision.

THAY3R · #36 05-20-2007, 01:51 PM

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Can you please stop saying $28 million?

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Whatever.

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Well isn't the Yankees signing Rocket for $28 million a better deal than the Red Sox signing Dice K for $250 million?

owsley · #37 05-20-2007, 01:55 PM

I have been a die hard Yankee fan my whole life and I definitely do not think the team is done for the year at all. This is still an excellent team and when they get Clemens, they will be one of the top teams in the majors, I have absolutely no doubt that things will turn around. They have gotten very unlucky so far, their pythag is actually 23-18, they are 2-8 in 1 run games, etc, etc. If you don't think that things will turn around or that they are "done" that is just a stupid statement. I don't think I am biased at all when I say that.

However in the last week as the division gap as gotten over 10 games the situation in the East is looking very, very dicey. A week ago I was saying to myself "yeah its a big lead but its still early" and today I am saying "thats a huge lead... I dont want to think about it". But the WC is very realistic. Detroit's RS/RA is 231/202, NY's is 221/198. 202 is more than 198. Considering that in a couple weeks the Yankees will be starting Clemens instead of Matt Desalvo.... how could you possibly say this team is done?

And now I will stop trying to be impartial and go into fan mode... as much as people will laugh at this, I believe that guys like Jeter, Posada, Clemens, Petite, Matsui, etc, will not go down easy. I started being a fan just after the 95 series against Seattle, so some of them are guys who have always been on the Yankees whenever I've watched them, I don't remember the era before or the previous guys. I cannot count them out.

trapsetter · #38 05-20-2007, 01:57 PM

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Can you please stop saying $28 million?

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Whatever.

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Well isn't the Yankees signing Rocket for $28 million a better deal than the Red Sox signing Dice K for $250 million?

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Yes. I will certainly agree with that. You can't ever get too hurt on a 1 year.

mason55 · #39 05-20-2007, 02:02 PM

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Can you please stop saying $28 million?

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Whatever.

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Well isn't the Yankees signing Rocket for $28 million a better deal than the Red Sox signing Dice K for $250 million?

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Yes. I will certainly agree with that. You can't ever get too hurt on a 1 year.

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Hear that? That's the sound of the point going over your head...

trapsetter · #40 05-20-2007, 02:13 PM

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Can you please stop saying $28 million?

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Whatever.

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Well isn't the Yankees signing Rocket for $28 million a better deal than the Red Sox signing Dice K for $250 million?

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Yes. I will certainly agree with that. You can't ever get too hurt on a 1 year.

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Hear that? That's the sound of the point going over your head...

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Why?