WSOP ME Hand

[gobboboy]

I really don't think his range includes TT or AQ preflop, and I honestly don't think playing AK in this spot is very profitable. It's one of those kinds of spots where you fold because you know the next round is going to be full of a hell of a lot more +EV spots that have a lot less variance than this one.

[LearnedfromTV]

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there's some argument for calling with any two you're opening with (assuming his range isn't, like, AA+)

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With the exception of Axo hands, this makes calling with any two better. Fairly basic strategy there.

[LearnedfromTV]

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I really don't think his range includes TT or AQ preflop, and I honestly don't think playing AK in this spot is very profitable. It's one of those kinds of spots where you fold because you know the next round is going to be full of a hell of a lot more +EV spots that have a lot less variance than this one.

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If this is true, I agree if we were out of position. I can't quite bring myself to fold in position, given that QQ-JJ are relatively comfortable on K-high flops, and when an A flops, there's only one combination of AA left.

As for this hand, I said or implied this a couple times already, but again: my argument for betting hinges on him at least having AQ in his preflop range, usually check-calling the turn with it and any other ace, and sometimes/usually paying off on the river with it also. If he never has AQ, I agree with everyone else that a check is better. I wasn't as definite on this earlier, because I wasn't taking the idea of him only having JJ+ seriously enough.

[aejones]

Yea, I'm probably more likely to call with J8 preflop than I am with AK, but I definitely call with both of them.

[Exitonly]

i understand the turn check argument... i dont really get this whole J8>AK argument. Someone said this was a 'very very easy fold pf' w/ AK, and someone else saying it's a good spot to call w/ J8o or any two?!/

I'm really not giving this guy that much credit, and i'm surprised gobbo's so scared of his range.. mid 30's isn't 'old guy', and he's an online qualifier, and he's playing in the tournament where people NOTORIOUSLY stack off 100's of bb's with [censored]. I think folding here is a bit weaksauce. You dont have to go batshit with the hand, and if you think his range is pretty tight then i agree with the turn check; but i dont think it makes it a fold pf..

I think my point is that you need a read to make this a 'very easy fold' and not just that he's an older guy in the blinds.

[gobboboy]

It's a hell of a lot easier to stack someone who doesn't know what he's doing when you are the one controlling the action, and by the looks of this thread it sure as hell doesn't look like you are. We flopped TPTK and we go call, check behind. If this is the way we are playing TPTK against this person, I don't think calling preflop is profitable. The only way to get someone's entire stack who can't fold QQ on the K high board in this situation is someone who bets the flop, check/calls the turn and check/calls the river.

Besides, I think his range preflop is very very tight. It's the first level of probably his first wsop event and someone in late position raises. He has 10k in his stack and the bb is 50. Do you REALLY think he's going to be reraising light when the blinds are that small? And if you say he's not good enough to realize that it's not worth it, then do you REALLY think that he's good enough to reraise light oop? I think the worst hand you see here is TT and after playing live with a bunch of these people, you NEVER see AQ here.

That said, we've already shown that we're playing TPTK in this spot ridiculously passive so we're not going to be stacking QQ anyway. If that's the case, I really don't think calling preflop is worth it. If it's AKs it's a super easy call, but I'd rather have an 11k stack in the first level of the wsop when I know exactly where I am in the hand and I'm able to control all aspects of it.

Remember, your hand range is a lot easier to narrow down postflop when you're calling, not betting. Most people are already putting you on whatever beats them, and when you're calling down on a K high or A high board, what the hell do you think they put you on?

[SossMan]

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So I play bad.

After thinking about it turn is obv check behind. My bet cost me almost half my stack because I can't fold almost ever, especially back then.


I didn't post this hand because of embarassment and the fact that my mistake is obvious. I posted it now because I really believe in a forum split and if they are counting high buy in posts, I thought I'd help......my ego be damned! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I call the river get shown AA, immediately order 2 beers and keep them coming 2 at a time until a bust out 2 hours later 8 beers into it in level 3.. COCKTAILS!!!!

Steam control is a bit of a leak for me [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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fold pf, obv.