Wtf, Miguel Cabrera? - Page 5

CieloAzor · #41 05-19-2007, 07:42 AM

Baseball is just a game. It doesn't really matter who wins and loses, but if you're gonna play, you might as well play to win. How often do infielders get hurt on reactionary dives anyway?

Homer · #42 05-19-2007, 10:05 AM

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pete rose is a [censored] moron. Plowing a catcher in the all-star game? what a [censored] idiot...

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Who cares if it was an all-star game? Baseball is baseball. He was trying to win the game. From a fan's perspective, you want to see plays like that. It's a shame that modern players are too busy worrying about messing up their careers from a freakish injury to dive for a groundball in a game like that.

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this is a completely idiotic point of view. IT WAS AN ALL-STAR GAME. Diving for a ball is not equal to pummelling a catcher at a play at the plate in the All-Star game. I'm sorry but I think you're flat out wrong, and this "you gotta give 110% one hundred percent of the time" stance you've taken, regardless of whether it's an exhibition, AS game or whatever, sounds Joe Morganesque.

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This forum is pretty much a waste of time because people would rather be lazy and call a point of view idiotic than present an argument as to why their opinion is correct.

The only legitimate point anyone has made is that in a meaningless regular season game the player is still being paid by the team to perform. That makes sense. However, I would think if the GM of that team would want the player to not give full effort in the AS game, he would feel the same way about a meaningless end of season game.

The line some people are drawing between games that "count in the standings" versus games that don't still makes no sense to me. Who cares if a game counts in the standings if there is a 100% chance that it will have no impact on the outcome of the season? These people are just drawing a line in the sand at a different place than me (yes, I believe a player should give his all in any MLB game, exhibition or not -- no, I don't think Pete Rose should run his kid over in a father-son game).

Homer · #43 05-19-2007, 10:08 AM

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also i think jeter diving into the stands face first was a tad silly. i mean, its honorable and everything but this risk of him being hurt seriously for that play far outweighed the value of the out (especially since it was out of play). before some donkey says "thats what makes jeter who he is" no its not. what makes jeter who he is is being a great offensive player at a defensive position.

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fwiw, i agree with this and don't believe it contradicts my prior posts. the risk is huge for little reward. it's a -ev play, and such and such.

i think some people think when i'm talking about giving it your all, i'm joe morgan or something. i'm just saying it's not too much to ask for a guy to lay out for a freaking ground ball, where the risk of injury is close to nil.

edit - meh, i might be partially contradicting myself. would i be mad if pete rose slid into home plate in an AS game instead of barreling over the catcher? no. do i think he's an idiot for doing so? no. as a fan, i appreciate him going all out to score the run. at the same time, i can understand a GM cringing at the sight of it.

anyway, i've gotten this thread off course, so if a few people can chime in and call me an idiot with no rationale we can go back to telling miggy to stop eating big macs as a meal between breakfast and brunch.

Triumph36 · #44 05-19-2007, 10:14 AM

how about this one, Homer -

a late-season game is much more likely to be meaningless than an early-season game. an injury in a late-season game is very unlikely to seriously threaten next season. the all-star game is in july, where just about every team is still in it - and everyone who's not are playing for contracts down the road.

there's a school of thought about atheletes that says they're not supposed to have much awareness of the score, the standings, or the futility of a comeback. Then there's the more recent school of thought that says they're only human, so they're probably not going to expend extra effort for a meaningless task. Like most things in life, it can't be all one way or the other - there has to be a balance struck. Atheletes can't be like the rest of us - working only when our boss is watching, giving an extra effort only when you know that they're ready to give out bonuses - part of what makes sports magical is that the great ones will always be trying out there. To see a bunch of guys out there who're basically saying 'that's not my job, man' is not a suitable escape from the rest of the world where that phrase is uttered all too often in different forms, by co-workers, friends, and lovers.

okay, that was kind of a rant, apologies

Homer · #45 05-19-2007, 10:23 AM

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how about this one, Homer -

a late-season game is much more likely to be meaningless than an early-season game. an injury in a late-season game is very unlikely to seriously threaten next season. the all-star game is in july, where just about every team is still in it - and everyone who's not are playing for contracts down the road.

there's a school of thought about atheletes that says they're not supposed to have much awareness of the score, the standings, or the futility of a comeback. Then there's the more recent school of thought that says they're only human, so they're probably not going to expend extra effort for a meaningless task. Like most things in life, it can't be all one way or the other - there has to be a balance struck. Atheletes can't be like the rest of us - working only when our boss is watching, giving an extra effort only when you know that they're ready to give out bonuses - part of what makes sports magical is that the great ones will always be trying out there. To see a bunch of guys out there who're basically saying 'that's not my job, man' is not a suitable escape from the rest of the world where that phrase is uttered all too often in different forms, by co-workers, friends, and lovers.

okay, that was kind of a rant, apologies

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Right, I understand this. It's senseless to barrel over a catcher in a 15-0 game where the probability of winning is low but the chance of getting injured is high. It's a long season, might as well conserve for the next game.

At the same time, this thought can go too far. I question what's going on when a player won't dive for a ball in the AS game and everyone is fine with it. There is close to zero risk in diving for a ground ball. I don't remember ever seeing someone get hurt by doing so. It can reach a point at which the AS star doesn't serve its purpose, to put on exhibition the best talent in baseball. They might as well not play the game at all.

Triumph36 · #46 05-19-2007, 10:27 AM

hideki matsui hurt himself diving for a fly ball - different scenario, still.

i don't remember the play in question - but honestly in the all-star game, it should be wiffle ball rules - the field should have clearly demarcated lines where hits would occur, and all the runners would be ghost runners. the only interesting thing about the all-star game is watching stars of one league face the other league pitcher vs. hitter, but given interleague play and free agency, that isn't all that interesting anymore.

prohornblower · #47 05-19-2007, 10:49 AM

It's funny how you guys are acting like there is some chance Cabrera would have gotten hurt diving for that ball. lol. It's not like he was jumping into the Mets dugout a la John Tudor, or Jetering face-first into the stands for the camera.

It was a f*cking routine grounder. He's not just playing for his Marlins fans and organization, he's representing MLB. He might as well have put a sign on his shirt for the other 29 GM's (Oh wait, the Marlins retain their stars forever, I forgot LOL) that says "I'm a Big P*ssy")