flop question

joker122 · #1 05-17-2007, 08:52 PM

guy is 34/20/1.8 after 1k hands. don't really know anything about him.

PokerStars 50/100 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, Button raises, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises, Button 3-bets

i think if there's a flush draw a cap/lead is best. without it it's closer. anyone just call down after he 3bets?

UtzChips · #2 05-17-2007, 09:30 PM

I play it where I don't put more money in than my opponent would with the same hand when he is beat. That way, when I lose, I lose less than he will in the same situation.

Some say yea, but you win less than he does......true........but I win more against his K3o when I have the best hand than he does.

If I don't know the guy/gal, I bet out on the Flop, call the raise and bet the Turn, call the raise and check/call the River in the majority of cases.

sl4v3 · #3 05-17-2007, 09:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If I don't know the guy/gal, I bet out on the Flop

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you like to lead out the flop rather than c/r?

sl4v3 · #4 05-17-2007, 09:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i think if there's a flush draw a cap/lead is best. without it it's closer. anyone just call down after he 3bets?

[/ QUOTE ]

This might be my standard line, especially when I have a degree of confidence that he will continue to bet with worse hands. I think a call and lead the turn is also a decent way to play this. There's lots of possible straights on the board.

UtzChips · #5 05-17-2007, 10:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If I don't know the guy/gal, I bet out on the Flop

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you like to lead out the flop rather than c/r?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because I have nothing but Top Pair, no Kicker, with a backdoor Flush draw. I would save my 3-bet Flop for a Flush draw, or a Broadway Card with K.

In addition, Villain could have J9 or QJ, giving him 8 outs, making him only a 2.18:1 Dog; even slightly less if he's suited in Clubs or Hearts.
I want to save those times I extract max bets on the Flop for when I have more to go with the King. Since I'm out of position, I can't very well keep up the pace of my Flop betting when a Str8 card Turns, I bet out and he raises.
What do I do then?
Do I ck it down from the Turn on?
Give me more to work with on the Flop. 2 Spades would be worth the ck/raise, as I can handle the 3-bet from Villain and it's worth the ck/call on the Turn when an Ace falls if I don't hit a Spade.

Finally, since my Redraws are slim here, I would hate giving him a Freecard if chose to just ck his Str8 draw and wake me up with a raise on the Turn after I bet when he hit the Straight with a 7.
Or maybe he's suited and another of his suit falls that is close in rank to the Flop cards and he raises me on the Turn.
Now, do I call, or put him on Two Pair and fold?

What I'd love is for him to be suited in Hearts when the 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Turns up [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]........so long the River card is black [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

sl4v3 · #6 05-17-2007, 10:44 PM

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Because I have nothing but Top Pair, no Kicker, with a backdoor Flush draw.

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Sure he could have a lot of hands, but top pair/no kicker is huge HU with a button stealer. Also, I almost never see anyone with reasonable aggression not continuation bet here, so I think the risk of him checking through is extremely minimal.

Assuming button's steal range is 30%, our pot equity is 68% according to Poker Stove (and that's assuming he'll stay in with all of his hands to the river, which he won't). I think we need to push our equity edge here. It may be the only way to get any additional money out of him.

[ QUOTE ]
I would save my 3-bet Flop for a Flush draw, or a Broadway Card with K.

[/ QUOTE ]

A c/r is just putting in 2 bets (unless he 3 bets like he did here).

UtzChips · #7 05-17-2007, 11:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Because I have nothing but Top Pair, no Kicker, with a backdoor Flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure he could have a lot of hands, but top pair/no kicker is huge HU with a button stealer. Also, I almost never see anyone with reasonable aggression not continuation bet here, so I think the risk of him checking through is extremely minimal.

Assuming button's steal range is 30%, our pot equity is 68% according to Poker Stove (and that's assuming he'll stay in with all of his hands to the river, which he won't). I think we need to push our equity edge here. It may be the only way to get any additional money out of him.

[ QUOTE ]
I would save my 3-bet Flop for a Flush draw, or a Broadway Card with K.

[/ QUOTE ]

A c/r is just putting in 2 bets (unless he 3 bets like he did here).

[/ QUOTE ]

I would open/raise with J9o/QJo on the Button and if you checked your Kings, I'd check behind you and surprise you on the Turn when I made my Str8, or even an Ace flopping on the Turn, as I'd still have outs.

Fire up PokerStars and go to a 6 player table and watch the passive play.

IMHO: It depends on who is sitting on the Button. That is 1st and primary variable in how you play that hand.

Victor · #8 05-18-2007, 01:15 AM

"I would open/raise with J9o/QJo on the Button and if you checked your Kings, I'd check behind you"

thanks for letting us know that you suck.

HOWMANY · #9 05-18-2007, 01:25 AM

I just calldown. If a villain like this gets into a situation against me where I think that he is getting angry at my flop c/r and will be 3betting more liberally then I will start capping here.

With him being basically unknown I just want to see a showdown because I have no clue what kind of player he is from his stats, anything from expert to primate is a very realistic possibility.

freshjuuuiice · #10 05-18-2007, 02:16 AM

call three bet, check call, check call