WTF is the standard line here?

[cbloom]

No Limit Hold'em Ring Game (6 max) , 6 players
Blinds : $0.50/$1

Stacks:
UTG : $100.50
MP : $179.05
CO : $100.80
Button : $97.50
SB : $118.10 (Hero)
BB : $100.80

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">MP raises to $4</font>, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises to $14</font>, Button folds,
Hero ???


CO is really tight.

I feel like flat-calling is super fishy and bad.

OTOH if I 4-bet it looks so strong I fold out everything I beat and only get called by AA.

Maybe I should mini-4bet ?

[Cue-Ball 66]

If CO is 'really tight', then calling is definitely the play, with the intention of c/r any non-A flop hoping he has JJ or QQ.

Like you said, 4-betting hard against a tight player is only gonna gets folds from the hands you want calls from.

[***]

Why do you feel like calling is super fishy and bad? Because it reveals the strength of your hand? Because it doesn't maximise its value?

You exposed the problem of a cold 4-bet against a very tight player: you are only going to get action from the range KK+.

Coldcalling also shows that you have a strong hand, but not as strong. Many tight players coldcall QQ-JJ in this situation, and weaker spots widen their range of pocket pairs or even include AK there sometimes. You do much better against his range when you see a none ace flop, so I agree with cue-ball that is what you should be looking for and hoping he stacks off with a worse pair. I'd be wary of a flop like QJx though. It's not so good for you and I would just check/call it instead.

[Fat Nicky]

I just 4-bet here. Just because he is tight, doesn't mean you're not gonna get action from AK/QQ/JJ, unless you have some super ninja read and know he's only gonna call you w/AA.

also, if we just call, we invite MP to take a flop w/a wide range of hands. seeing the flop 3-handed could get tricky here against 2 full stacks.

[cbloom]

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Why do you feel like calling is super fishy and bad? Because it reveals the strength of your hand? Because it doesn't maximise its value?


[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, I guess the reason I hate cold-calling is it pretty much exactly defines my hand to {JJ,QQ,KK}. I hate making any play that so exactly defines my hand, and I'm sure it's bad at higher levels but really may not be a problem here.

[ QUOTE ]

I'd be wary of a flop like QJx though. It's not so good for you and I would just check/call it instead.

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LOL I think a QJx flop is probably a check-fold with this guy. His 3-bet is like JJ+ &amp; AJ. Even AK is drawing good against me.

[DCWildcat]

With a raise and a reraise in front of you, any action that isn't a fold is going to define your hand.

[Cue-Ball 66]

[ QUOTE ]
Just because he is tight, doesn't mean you're not gonna get action from AK/QQ/JJ

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but it means it's less likely.

I'm not really worried about MP here. He'll most likely fold, and even if he does call, I think this is equalled out by the extra money I feel we'll win from the 3-bettor. Plus, he might flop top pair and stack off.

Depends how bad he is.

[Vovochka84]

4bet ~22$

[Fat Nicky]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just because he is tight, doesn't mean you're not gonna get action from AK/QQ/JJ

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but it means it's less likely.

I'm not really worried about MP here. He'll most likely fold, and even if he does call, I think this is equalled out by the extra money I feel we'll win from the 3-bettor. Plus, he might flop top pair and stack off.

Depends how bad he is.

[/ QUOTE ]

point taken, but i'd like to add, that really tight players usually aren't that good and from my experience tend to over-value hands like AK, JJ and QQ. they are not insta-mucking these hands to 4-bets often.

[cbloom]

BTW if CO was someone I'd been getting aggro with 3-betting, I would definitely 4-bet and expect to get called light.

Also I guess at higher levels you would be occasionally squeezing here so a 4-bet wouldn't define your hand as much.