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#21
05-14-2007, 01:15 AM
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Re: How to handle incorrect rules interpretation on a dealer mishap
I would have explained the rule for the premature turn and what to do just like you did. After that I would have handled it totally different. Once I was overruled end of the arguement from me and we're playing by the house rules. Now I'm asking for an explanation of how to proceed. Since I would never play it this way myself I am unfamiliar with how the rest of the betting is going to go. And since I now have a set there is no way I am ever folding.
Once the hand is over, if a new discussion needs to be started over how the hand went down thats fine. But I'll be talking while I'm stacking my chips. It's a home game. Relax, enjoy. It sounds like some (most?) are there just to have a good time and your hardline attitude does not score you any points. 
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#23
05-14-2007, 12:26 PM
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Re: How to handle incorrect rules interpretation on a dealer mishap
In the case of this particular spot, I would have conceded to the rest of the table and then mucked the hand RIGHT AFTER I showed the guy sitting next to me that I was folding trips for the good of the game. This may be short term -ev, but the fact is with a bet/raise, you fold that hand without the turn card anyways (at least I hope you do). But at least by folding and showing the three (to someone not in the hand), you have your integrity.
Good for you that you tried, too bad it turned out so crummy.
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#24
05-14-2007, 02:10 PM
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Re: How to handle incorrect rules interpretation on a dealer mishap
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] The turn card gave you trips, no? I don't understand your statement about outs for the river. Maybe I'm missing something. [/ QUOTE ] It was outs for the turn. (We were still on the flop betting round. Fourth street was exposed early.) Before the exposed card, I was looking at 7 to 1 odds to catch what I viewed to be 5 outs against a very aggressive better (I was wrong, as he already had 2 pair). That's an easy call for me against this player. With the 3 exposed, it can no longer come on the turn, so my outs are reduced to 4. I now had a much more difficult decision, and I decided to fold. The 3 will then get shuffled into the deck, and it will be available to hit again on the river. The problem is, by that time, the pot odds are probably no longer there against a big bet to hit a 5 outer. [/ QUOTE ] I don't understand this at all, as I understand the crux of the matter to be that they were not going to shuffle the three back in but let it stand. So it looks like instead of having 4 outs to the turn you are a hundred percent to hit an out. from your OP: [ QUOTE ] as the consensus at the table was that the exposed 3 should remain the turn card [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ]
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#25
05-14-2007, 02:21 PM
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Re: How to handle incorrect rules interpretation on a dealer mishap
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The turn card gave you trips, no? I don't understand your statement about outs for the river. Maybe I'm missing something. [/ QUOTE ] It was outs for the turn. (We were still on the flop betting round. Fourth street was exposed early.) Before the exposed card, I was looking at 7 to 1 odds to catch what I viewed to be 5 outs against a very aggressive better (I was wrong, as he already had 2 pair). That's an easy call for me against this player. With the 3 exposed, it can no longer come on the turn, so my outs are reduced to 4. I now had a much more difficult decision, and I decided to fold. The 3 will then get shuffled into the deck, and it will be available to hit again on the river. The problem is, by that time, the pot odds are probably no longer there against a big bet to hit a 5 outer. [/ QUOTE ] I don't understand this at all, as I understand the crux of the matter to be that they were not going to shuffle the three back in but let it stand. So it looks like instead of having 4 outs to the turn you are a hundred percent to hit an out. from your OP: [ QUOTE ] as the consensus at the table was that the exposed 3 should remain the turn card [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ]
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#26
05-14-2007, 03:07 PM
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Re: How to handle incorrect rules interpretation on a dealer mishap
From what I understand this is what happened, but the OP basically felt bad about knowing that his card was going to hit, so he folded. I also think it should have been shuffled back in, but if that indeed was the "house" rules, I have no idea why he would have any qualms about playing how he would have played anyway. I guess if you hadn't planned to call with bottom pair you could be a gentleman and fold, but if you truly planned to peel on a weak possible 5-outer, why not still go ahead and do it?
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#27
05-15-2007, 02:50 PM
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Re: How to handle incorrect rules interpretation on a dealer mishap
[ QUOTE ]
I don't see BJK as being too much of an arrogant ass, but I do think that the way he handled the OP situation could have been better. [/ QUOTE ] Which I freely admitted in the OP.
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#28
05-15-2007, 02:57 PM
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Re: How to handle incorrect rules interpretation on a dealer mishap
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] How would you react to being called a cheater when the exact goal I was trying to accomplish was to avoid cheating? I guess I'll never understand what makes it okay for other people to be arrogant asses. [/ QUOTE ] Well, I was going to say that your OP never said anyone but YOU making any kind of cheating reference, indirect or not, but I can see that it probably won't matter [/ QUOTE ] Well, let's see. I cut to the chase as well as I could in an already long post. I eliminated about 5 minutes worth of conversation up to the "critical point" in an effort of brevity. I asked for help preventing such occurances in the future. Your "solution" was to call me an arrogant ass. Your post was quite counter-productive. Do you see why?
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#29
05-15-2007, 02:58 PM
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Re: How to handle incorrect rules interpretation on a dealer mishap
[ QUOTE ]
In the case of this particular spot, I would have conceded to the rest of the table and then mucked the hand RIGHT AFTER I showed the guy sitting next to me that I was folding trips for the good of the game. This may be short term -ev, but the fact is with a bet/raise, you fold that hand without the turn card anyways (at least I hope you do). [/ QUOTE ] There was no raise. There was six chips in front of the second player in the pot because he had already made change for himself. There is no question that I would have called a single bet in that spot.
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#30
05-15-2007, 03:04 PM
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Re: How to handle incorrect rules interpretation on a dealer mishap
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The turn card gave you trips, no? I don't understand your statement about outs for the river. Maybe I'm missing something. [/ QUOTE ] It was outs for the turn. (We were still on the flop betting round. Fourth street was exposed early.) Before the exposed card, I was looking at 7 to 1 odds to catch what I viewed to be 5 outs against a very aggressive better (I was wrong, as he already had 2 pair). That's an easy call for me against this player. With the 3 exposed, it can no longer come on the turn, so my outs are reduced to 4. I now had a much more difficult decision, and I decided to fold. The 3 will then get shuffled into the deck, and it will be available to hit again on the river. The problem is, by that time, the pot odds are probably no longer there against a big bet to hit a 5 outer. [/ QUOTE ] I don't understand this at all, as I understand the crux of the matter to be that they were not going to shuffle the three back in but let it stand. So it looks like instead of having 4 outs to the turn you are a hundred percent to hit an outt. [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] They did end up shuffling the card back in after one conscientious player at the table went to find the host of the game (my bad...I never mentionted this).
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