Defense against the continuation bet! Please post suggestions

mistermuni · #1 02-25-2006, 02:53 PM

I guess I want to start out by asking what factors people take into consideration when calling continuation bets. It's easy enough to call/raise a continuation bet when you've made your hand (or flopped an overpair, etc.), but I would like to focus on how to defend against continuation bets when the flop did not hit you.

Like I was saying, here are some factors I look at:

-How often does my opponent cb, according to pahud?
-Can my hand improve? (overcards, flush/straight draws, etc)
-What are my pot odds?
-Am I in position or oop?
-How aggressive is my opponent on the turn, according to pahud (is he likely to fire again on the turn if i call his cb?)
-Do I beat Ace high? (He is likely to have AJ-AK)
-Is there anyone else in the hand other than the raiser and me?

So, with your help, I'd like to compile a list of things to consider before calling a cb. At present I simply fold anytime I miss the flop to a cb...but there must be a better way of defending against cbs. This is all at 100nl full ring, btw.

For example, take the following situation from 100nl full fing.

Hero holds 55 in the CO. Villain (UTG+2) raises to 3$, Hero calls, all else fold.

Flop is 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Villain bets 5$. Hero?

One option for Hero is to call, and then on the fold to any bet on non-5 turn. Or, if checked to on turn, hero can check behind or bet 1/2-3/4 pot.

Another option is to simply fold to the $5 flop bet. Which action is best? Sorry this post is getting long. Please post any ideas related to what I've mentioned, or defending against cb's in general.

Thanks,
-Grant

Pokey · #2 02-25-2006, 03:04 PM

In the situation you describe, I routinely fold. There's just no profit in chasing a two-outer. If villain has air, he takes the pot; more power to him.

Think about the situation:

If villain has any overpair, a nine, or a seven, I'm drawing to two outs, and just spewing money. Here, I'm winning about one time in nine.
If villain has two overcards, he's got six outs twice, and he's still going to win more than one time in four.

So the situation is that either I'm nearly dead already or I'm somewhat ahead. The problem is that I'll never know which of those situations applies. You paid to see a five on the flop; you didn't see a five on the flop; you're done. Cut your losses and move on to the next hand.

mistermuni · #3 02-25-2006, 03:20 PM

I like your assessment, its about the same as mine. There are lots of better scenarios that are a little trickier, imo. Say he only bets 4$, and we are holding AQ. Then is it a call?

There must be a cutoff point for every variable -- how much our opponent bets, how many outs we have, etc..

-grant

cbloom · #4 02-25-2006, 03:23 PM

Mostly just fold to cbets unless they are raising a lot preflop (PFR > 20) and always cbetting.

Jamougha · #5 02-25-2006, 03:33 PM

It's really really player dependent. What hands does he raise, does he c-bet, do you have a read on his betting, does he fire second barrels, can he be bluffed, etc etc.

Call, fold and raise are all options. Before gathering reads, I fold. When in doubt, I fold.

pokerjoker · #6 02-25-2006, 03:34 PM

I consider

1. Position
2. c-betters hand range
3. have likely they are to fold if I pop the turn if lead weakly into or checked to.
4. (obvious) my hand
5. other people yet to act
6. size of c-bet (in regards to pot odds and his hand range)...If I know the player I can get a good read on what hands he has depending on the size of his c-bet.

Mostly I just fold w/o a hand unless I have position and they have a large opening range. I sometimes call with a couple outs (ocasionally w/ air) then pop turn w/ reads.

PS I've been playing against you for the past few hours. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

mikever · #7 02-25-2006, 03:36 PM

Also see HOH v.2, there is a section on this.

mrh86 · #8 02-25-2006, 03:52 PM

I usually only c-bet the flop against one person about 60-70% of the time. C-betting less than most people protects your slowplays, your slowplay-bluffs, and your draws because you can check the flop without creating too much suspicion. There is also such a thing as c-betting the turn, which I do often as well. It mostly looks like you slowplayed the flop, and you can get certain opponents to fold good hands.

mistermuni · #9 02-25-2006, 05:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]

PS I've been playing against you for the past few hours. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

You sure it was me? I play under a slightly different name on party...

You're brave to sit at my table, sir. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

-grant

pokerjoker · #10 02-25-2006, 05:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

PS I've been playing against you for the past few hours. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

You sure it was me? I play under a slightly different name on party...

You're brave to sit at my table, sir. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

-grant

[/ QUOTE ]

yup, it was you. I was scared to face ur awesomeness, but luckily you were only like 12/3, so I didn't have to run with my tail between my legs too much.