Tilter's Annonymous. All tilters welcome.

[DavidC]

I'll have to come back to the thread as I'm about to pass out, but I didn't mean to sound like a prick in my first response.

Take care, dude.
--Dave.

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
Dave, I think the post hand reciprocality analysis shouldn't take hand frequencies into account because you're not analyzing your opponent's range, you're looking at how he played his specific hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, this is kinda funny.

I was thinking about long term reciprocity (bb/100) and you're describing short-term reciprocity (bb/this hand).

I think that it's helpful to know the short-term (in order to figure out long term), but long term is where my focus is, and that's why I was asking about how to adjust reciprocity for frequencies.

Now, I wasn't talking about my hand vs his range. I was talking about my hand vs his hand.

i.e. K3345

his aa, my kk, I win 1SB more than he would win if we reversed and he will get dealt aa more often than I get dealt kk...

Do I win 1sb on the hand, or a little more, or a little less? I don't know.

Now, he might get AK in that spot sometimes too, but it doesn't matter, because I'll do a separate reciprocal analysis for that hand when it occurs, or maybe I'll do a weighted reciprocal analysis of all his hands based on their frequency and my hands and their frequencies, etc etc etc. Helluva matrix so I don't really do that, but ... I'm kinda interested in doing it just once so I can figure out the math of poker deeply or whatever.

the other thing that I'm kinda concerned about is how rake works into reciprocal analysis.

Luckily our edges are pretty big, but as edges become smaller between players (as online is becoming) rake might play a pretty big factor in reciprocal analysis (as we get more and more similar to eachother).

We sorta solve that by just keeping track of bb/100 profit and bb/100 rake over large samples and relooking at those stats every few years as the games change, but ... well... again, for completeness, it'd be nice to understand it once, even if i forget it in like a year or something.

--Dave.

edit: I realize I've taken a tilt post and hijacked it into a poker post, which is why I'll have to come back to the thread tomorrow and see the whole tilt side of hte post, again, sorry bro.

[BigBadBabar]

dave! no hijack hijinks pls [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[inferno]

[ QUOTE ]
NPA - noted poker authority?

TA -??

And how did these sources help you tilt less inferno?

[/ QUOTE ]

Mostly by thinking about the one liners they give which stick to my head. Read allot of psychology posts on NPA. I also have to give some credit to Joe Tall who noted you should quit when you lost focus.

[Peter Harris]

Hello, I'm Pete and I am a tilter.

I do a few of these, but i'll comment on all of yours, matey.


[ QUOTE ]
1) Playing in games that are too tough.

[/ QUOTE ]

you've always talked about playing in tough games so when you get to 30/60 you're able to beat it. I always looks for the softest game at whatever limit i play in. I think crushing soft games for a big winrate and moving up slower is better than locking horns with the best players at each limit for experience.

[ QUOTE ]
2) Watching my $$ at the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh, I do this too. It's lame. It's capital, not money, and you invest it hoping for a return. you can't always secure a return. Buy in for 100BB+ if you're going to use tiltblocker as you don't want to flop the stone cold nuts and find you have 3BB back.

[ QUOTE ]
3) Demolition tilt

[/ QUOTE ]

this is totally stupid and avoidable.

[ QUOTE ]
4) Ego

[/ QUOTE ]

also not good. Against an uberfish who stacks me as a dog I'll just think "man, bad move, hope you stick around". Confidence is not Ego. the latter is a much bigger problem.

[ QUOTE ]
5) Pushing back when they’ve already dug in.

[/ QUOTE ]

You wrote about checking lines, right? so you should be adept at spotting the likeliest showdown lines. Keep a sharper eye out. Some look like c/c c/c (river likely c/c), some look like c/c c/r (river will SD) some like b/c c/c (river c/c likely) etc.

[ QUOTE ]
6) Compounded tilt

[/ QUOTE ]

we are all blessed with 20/20 vision after the fact. After every hand if i think i've done something wrong i tell myself then and there, then review the hand in PT later to see. If i'm still not sure, i go to 2+2.

[ QUOTE ]
7) Weaktight tilt

[/ QUOTE ]

this isn't such a problem unless you're making rockstar folds. which you shouldnt be.

[ QUOTE ]
8) Loose passive tilt

[/ QUOTE ]

bet this happens most after a series of cruel beats. I think i curl up sometimes and do this one.

[ QUOTE ]
10) Ignoring pf tilt.

[/ QUOTE ]

PF is the most obv way of getting an early range - do they limp big pairs? when they 3b what do they SD? you can't miss it out.

[ QUOTE ]
11) Ignoring protected pot tilt

[/ QUOTE ]

Just assume if its 3handed+ you'll have to play ABC TAGpoker to take the pot.

[ QUOTE ]
12) Confusion tilt.

[/ QUOTE ]

take longer to think, or find more beatable players. there's no shame in the latter.

[ QUOTE ]
13) laziness tilt

[/ QUOTE ]

everyone (well probably) could do more to improve. We do have other committments.

[ QUOTE ]
14) distracted tilt

[/ QUOTE ]

give buttercup a bone or chewy toy [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

-surfing the interwebs tilt
is bad, i dont do it

-too many tables tilt
i am at 2-3 now, maybe 4.

-tv tilt
if playing donkaments, i fire up a little TV

-drunken tilt
never played drunk

-deadline tilt
DON'T HAVE DEADLINES WOOOOOOT

-long session tilt
after about 4hrs i'm usually toast. Will break after 1-2hrs usually.



Keep it up Guru, but my best advice remains: find soft games and dine on fishies.

[Tommy Angelo]

Bless me oh father for I have sinned. It has been -- What's that? I'm in the wrong place? My people are outside in the alley behind the dumpster? Okay, I'll go find them.

Hi, my name is Tommy, and I'm a tilter.

[DavidC]

Firstly awesome post.

It sounds like you know what to do, so basically just do more of that, with an obvious exception: no beer, not even one, when you're playing.

That confusion tilt that you're talking about... my best experience with that is when I'm a little frustrated and I don't know where I'm at, so my solution is to continue to play and stackoff like 6bb (rationally, mind you, not putting like 6 bets in with A8 ui) rather than reload at the table. If I'm not comfortable enough to reload, I really shouldn't be there.

A lot of pretty damn decent players are having a lot of trouble these days with having long downswings. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
I was prolly the worst tilter of you all. I healed mostly by playing short peroids of time(like playing sessions of max 1hour) that helped me allot. NPA and TA helped also.

guru you can do iiiiiiiit! also plz beat jaxup [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

You guys both in the same city or something?

[BigBadBabar]

my name is bigbadbabar (well not really), and i have a problem. in spite of logging 400k hands online, or maybe not in spite of, beats bother me more now than at the beginning, and i tilt more easily. i tilt in a variety of ways, most of which guruman covered quite eloquently. let it be known that i am on the road to recovery and welcome any interventions that this Esteemed Community seems fit to offer or make.

yours in sherbert shipping,
BBB

[bravos1]

it should be at least a little concerning that you tilt easier now than before. After the time you have invested, you should know that suckouts happen and poker is what it is.