Learning to Program

[jjshabado]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That's a little vague. Who do you want to apply to when you graduate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats kinda the problem I'm having at this point. I only have a vague idea of what I want to do, and I'm miles away from being able to answer a question as specific as who I want to work for. Developing software sounds appealing, and from what i've read software engineering is a field that is growing rapidly and is both financially and personally rewarding. So thats kinda where I'm at right now.

-DG

[/ QUOTE ]

I stick with my recommendation of learning Java first. I think its fairly easy to learn, is used in industry a lot, and relates well to a number of other languages. I actually believe a language like Python is what you should start with, but I don't think there are very many good resources to use, so if you're learning independently, its probably not a good choice.

The nice thing about programming though is that a programming language is only the surface. Any monkey can learn to program (an infinte number of monkeys typing on an infinite number of computers will eventually write a completely bugless Widows Vista?) a good developer (ie. somebody who will have a job here in NA for a good length of time) knows concepts and principles that he/she can quickly learn to apply in any new language. Learning programming languages is a lot like learning real languages in the sense that each additional language you learn, makes the next language easier to learn.

[DeadlyGambit]

jjshabado:

i really appreciate your input. any suggestions on books I should pick up?

[_dave_]

Learn C/C++

It is annoying and can be bitch hard at times. This is a good test - if you can take/enjoy it, you will love life as a programmer [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

edit: C/C++ is also by far the most powerful language (besides ASM) - as in you will have a hard time crashing a computer programming Java/.NET - with C++ a typo could do it. Also a good thing.

[jjshabado]

[ QUOTE ]
Learn C/C++

It is annoying and can be bitch hard at times. This is a good test - if you can take/enjoy it, you will love life as a programmer [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

edit: C/C++ is also by far the most powerful language (besides ASM) - as in you will have a hard time crashing a computer programming Java/.NET - with C++ a typo could do it. Also a good thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

All of these are reasons to NOT learn C/C++ as a first language. Spending 4 hours debugging an unintelligible compile or runtime error is not time spent well. Its taken me months of working with C++ to really start to feel like I have a handle on all the complex subtleties of the language, and I know it'll be years before I have a true mastering. With Java I understood the language in a lot less time and started mastering it a lot faster.

Learning C++ as your first language is akin to learning to read using an encyclopedia. Sure being able to read an encyclopedia is more useful/rewarding then reading Dr. Seuss, but its silly to start there.

OP, I'm going to ask a few of my friends that learned Java on their own to see if they have any good recommendations. I learned it in University after learning Pascal and a few other simpler languages and never learned it on my own. So I don't really know of good resources for doing that.

[SamIAm]

My first real language was Java, but I started with LISP. (Ok, AI guys use LISP for real programming, but they don't count.)

I honestly think that one's first language doesn't have to be useful. There are some serious ideas that you need to get your head around in programming. After you learn how to think in this goofy way that programmers think, learning your second language will be easy; your first language should be one that makes that intuitive leap the easiest.

So I guess I vote java.
-Sam

[pokergrader]

Yeah the more I think about this, jjshabado is right. Java has a much better "compiler" which will make debugging easier, you wont have to bother with libraries for things like Threads and Sockets, and it forces you to learn OO.

The first language is just a starting point, and Java is going to be much more user friendly. I just have to defend my friend C++, since it still runs the world.

[LeapFrog]

If you are thinking of java, I can recommend eclipse as a open source ide

[Neuge]

[ QUOTE ]
I actually believe a language like Python is what you should start with, but I don't think there are very many good resources to use, so if you're learning independently, its probably not a good choice.

[/ QUOTE ]
There are tons of books on all aspects of python. This and this are generally considered the best for learning the language. There are some public domain books for download here. You can also go to python.org. They have a pretty good tutorial and I'm sure they have links to other resources.

[kazana]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't most programmers kind of hate C++ or am I wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]
It's a love-hate kind of thing. More hate than love, I guess.

[CORed]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Don't most programmers kind of hate C++ or am I wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]
It's a love-hate kind of thing. More hate than love, I guess.

[/ QUOTE ]

I learned C first (well actually I had a college course in Fortran using punch cards (yes, I'm an old fart), but never did any serious programming in it. While there is something to be said for learning an easier language first, if you can program in C, you can program in anything. If you want something to run fast, write it in C or C++. If you want to get the program written fast, use Java, Perl, C#, etc. Compiled executables will always outperform interpreted or run-time compiled languages, so C and C++ are the workhorses for device drivers, OS kernels, word processors, spread sheets, etc., where shaving every nanosecond counts, whereas languages like Jave, C# and perl are used for smaller things like web applications or middleware, where maximizing programmer productivity is more important.