QQ vs coldcap

[ILOVEPOKER929]

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C/R flop and call down if 3bet.
He is 50/10 so I can still see 99, AJ+ too many times to just call down here with QQ

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This is what I would do if I didnt know how to hand read.

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So after a cap by a 50/10 player you put him on AA or KK here?

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When you have QQ's and a passive player coldcaps behind you and the flop comes out Jack high. Your hand sux unless you have a read that says otherwise.

[ILOVEPOKER929]

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C/R flop and call down if 3bet.
He is 50/10 so I can still see 99, AJ+ too many times to just call down here with QQ

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This is what I would do if I didnt know how to hand read.

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So after a cap by a 50/10 player you put him on AA or KK here?

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1) Villian didn't cap. In a situation where villian is coldc-calling a cap, assuming he has a hand he would have 3-bet/Cap with would not be too far from the truth in most situations.

2)If we assumed he had AA or KK here everytime, we would be Check-Folding the Flop. His range is pretty narrow though, and weighted towards hands that beat us. That's why giving villian an opportunity to put in even more bets is a problem. This is a situation where if we get aggressive, we are only going to lose the most against hands that beat us, and gain the least from the few hands we beat.

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The fact that the flop is Jack high is also important IMO.

[MacGuyV]

It's not fair or true to say aggressive play wins the least when we're ahead - this guy is showing down 100% of the time. I dislike C/R/call because he's just going to pop the turn with AA/KK and 3bet AK on the flop.

[Nfinity]

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The fact that the flop is Jack high is also important IMO.

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Absolutely.


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It's not fair or true to say aggressive play wins the least when we're ahead


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It's more than fair, your just thinking about it wrong. You see each individual hand and think "A check raise on the flop would get us an extra SB against 99" where I see the huge amount of hands that beat us making us pay more to get to SD, vs the very few hands we beat that we gain extra value from.

Maybe this would be a little more fair:

Bad aggressive play in this situation will make you lose a whole hell of a lot more when you are behind than you could ever dream to gain when you are ahead.

VS a liberal range for villain, and when I say liberal, it means I included both of the AQ hands and AJs, our hand is a little better than 50% equity, enough to call down barring no A or K on the turn or River. Putting in raises anywhere blows this hand for us.

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- this guy is showing down 100% of the time. I dislike C/R/call because he's just going to pop the turn with AA/KK and 3bet AK on the flop.


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I really don't think this villain would be putting in that kind of action in VS a CR with AK. I'm not unfamiliar with the Free Card 3-bet with this sort of hand, but they usually come from the 30+/20+ LAG types prone to over-aggression(they would be most likely to bet/call or CR this flop), but know the value of aggression/ free cards.

This guy just knows where the raise button is with good hands. He knows where the call button is with them too.

[MacGuyV]

I'm not thinking about it "wrong" you said C/R wins the least when ahead which is false.

Postflop I don't see any indication that villian is close to straightforward.

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Bad aggressive play in this situation will make you lose a whole hell of a lot more when you are behind than you could ever dream to gain when you are ahead.

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I agree

[Cavok]

First of all I have to admit that I misread the OP, with three players in the hand preflop instead of two the range of the capper is much narrower. My bad.

Anyway, do we have to go to showdown then?
By c/c to the river we will pay 2,5 BB to see if we are good, by check/reraise/call the flop we can c/f the the turn UI being 95% sure we are beaten for a cost of 1,5 BB.

Against a 30+/20+ villain I will take the c/c anyday until an A or K shows up but against this guy?

[Gurravasa]

Well UTG respected that cap enough to fold pf after he opened the pot and I think you should respect it as well. You shouldn't need to think of ranges here, your instinct and common sense should tell you he probably has a strong hand. I c/c this all the way, and I'm very happy if my hand holds up.

[Gurravasa]

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First of all I have to admit that I misread the OP, with three players in the hand preflop instead of two the range of the capper is much narrower. My bad.

Anyway, do we have to go to showdown then?
By c/c to the river we will pay 2,5 BB to see if we are good, by check/reraise/call the flop we can c/f the the turn UI being 95% sure we are beaten for a cost of 1,5 BB.

Against a 30+/20+ villain I will take the c/c anyday until an A or K shows up but against this guy?

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Yes we have to take QQ to SD. I can't see why we should build a huge pot on flop and then fold on turn. Off course it's worth 1BB to take this to SD, instead of folding on turn, with the possibility that we have the best hand or catches a queen on the river. We also don't risk folding the best hand on the turn.

[Nfinity]

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First of all I have to admit that I misread the OP, with three players in the hand preflop instead of two the range of the capper is much narrower. My bad.

Anyway, do we have to go to showdown then?
By c/c to the river we will pay 2,5 BB to see if we are good, by check/reraise/call the flop we can c/f the the turn UI being 95% sure we are beaten for a cost of 1,5 BB.

Against a 30+/20+ villain I will take the c/c anyday until an A or K shows up but against this guy?

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You misunderstand our goals. Our goal is not to see which hand is best with the minimum amount of bets. Our goal is to win the percentage of the pot that is ours.

With 50% equity we are investing 2.5BBs on a calldown to win half of a 10+BB pot.(Less usually when we are ahead and AK doesn't fire on the River)

With your strategy you are investing 1BB (CR/Call) to gain 1SB from a little over half of his range (assuming he calls down with AJs, AQ and AK UNIMPROVED)

This scenario is fairly simplistic, it doesn't take into account a Q improving you on the Turn, the times an A or K wrecks you when you are either ahead or behind, or the times you get outplayed by a hand you beat or chop with.

[bassLine]

mustreplaceKeyboard.

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">UTG raises</font>, UTG+1 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Button caps</font>, 3 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (11.5SB, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6.75BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (8.75BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets</font>, Hero calls