How to handle incorrect rules interpretation on a dealer mishap

[BJK]

I need to know how to handle situations like these a little better.

The dealer was out smoking a cigarette, and the button was dealing in his place.

I was in the big blind with 36o, and we I got to see a 5-way flop for free ($3/$6 LHE home game). The flop was 3, J, K rainbow. Three players checked, player 4 bet, and the action gets dubious on player 5. Apparently, he only called, but my awareness was focused on player 4 for an extra second or two because his bet looked weak. I looked over at player 5, saw a $5 and a $1 chip, and I asked, "did he raise?" I thought I had heard him say call, and it's an important issue. I call if he called, and I fold if he raised.

At any rate, instead of answering the question, the dealer flipped over the turn card, which happened to be another 3. This is where I told the dealer to put that card aside to be shuffled back into the deck for the river, and then burn and turn 4th street again. This is where the argument ensued, as the consensus at the table was that the exposed 3 should remain the turn card even though there were three players yet to act. I didn't handle it well.

I did NOT want to telegraph my hand at that point, but the exposed 3 on the turn made it so I only had 4 outs remaining for the turn instead of 5 (my understanding is that the 3 goes back into the deck for a chance to hit the board on the river). It became a clear fold for me, and the table was irate because, if I was just going to fold anyway, they couldn't figure out what difference it was going to make to me that we play by those rules.

I was told all sorts of stuff like, "this is a home game and these are the home game's rules". One guy was even quoting to me from some poker rule book that I'd never heard of before.

My response probably scared one of the fish away. I came out and said, "if you don't follow this particular rule, you are giving players at the tables free angle shots. I refuse to play in a game that is not on the level." In this case, it would have been me getting the free angle shot, and I know dang well that if I had stayed in the hand with the exposed card, I would have never heard the end of it. However, I also refuse to let the table get a free angle shot on me by folding the best hand in that spot.

Of course, that particular fish happened to have flopped top two pair, and I would have filled up with the 6 that came on the turn instead (after I folded..the card that would have been the river). He left right after the hand claiming that he doesn't play with "know-it-all's". I doubt he'll be back.

I know I handled the situation poorly. Does anyone have any advice about how I can handle it better in the future?

[Al_Capone_Junior]

I strongly suggest the whole lot of you get a copy of robert's rules of poker (easily found online with a convenient printable version) and use them to run your game.

Also, I suggest before you pretend to know how to handle a situation that you learn wtf you are talking about. Cuz you screwed this one up royally.

Al

[AngusThermopyle]

The 'early' turn card made you trips and you were honest enough to let them know what the "casino procedure" was.
They told you that by "their rules", the card had to stay.
You tried.
You should have then said, "Okay. Your game. Your rules."
Don't fold and teach them a lesson.

[pfapfap]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I suggest before you pretend to know how to handle a situation that you learn wtf you are talking about. Cuz you screwed this one up royally.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it seems like he was trying to get it handled exactly right.

I agree with Agnus. You tried. They overruled. You pull a massive pot.

It ends sticky regardless, tho'. I assume that you later talk to the host and try to get such a policy established, regardless of outcome of hand. However, those who would have been happy to take your money had the cards not helped you would have been screaming to void the hand once you won.

Anyway, talk to the host about this privately away from the game. Surely there are one or two others in the group who also understand and respect these things. Just gotta suck it up this time, but try to get it hammered out for next time. It's the host's responsibility, not yours, and the host can decide how best to handle it for his/her game.

In the future, don't go screaming about angles and being on the level, etc. Most of these people are not trying to scame you. Your statements will do nothing to affect the angle-shooters, but a lot to scare away the fish.

[BJK]

[ QUOTE ]
I strongly suggest the whole lot of you get a copy of robert's rules of poker (easily found online with a convenient printable version) and use them to run your game.

Also, I suggest before you pretend to know how to handle a situation that you learn wtf you are talking about. Cuz you screwed this one up royally.

Al

[/ QUOTE ]

Please explain, for I have read these rules thoroughly numerous times in the past. The ruling I requested is exactly in line with Robert's Rules of Poker.

I'll admit that I screwed up royally by chasing away one of the fish. Beyond that, I am at a loss.

Perhaps you need to thoroughly reread and understand my post before you pretend to know wtf you are talking about.

[BJK]

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I agree with Agnus. You tried. They overruled. You pull a massive pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wish I had the balls.

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It ends sticky regardless, tho'. I assume that you later talk to the host and try to get such a policy established, regardless of outcome of hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

This has already been accomplished, and though the host appeared to agree with me when I spoke with him about it away from the table, I wasn't invited to play tonight. It seems the repercussions of this may go much deeper than I initially thought.

[ QUOTE ]
However, those who would have been happy to take your money had the cards not helped you would have been screaming to void the hand once you won.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are so correct, and even if the card had stayed, I don't think I could have made myself call simply due to the backlash once the hand was done. I don't mind if opponents think I'm a donkey, and I don't mind if opponents don't like me. I do mind if opponents think I'm an angle shooter. I tried to make it clear to the rest of the table that I was trying to protect everyone's interests, but it was almost like the biggest aggressor in the situation was accusing me of being the one that was pursuing an angle. At the time, in the heat of the moment, I felt like I was protecting my own reputation, which would have made it impossible for me to call.

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, talk to the host about this privately away from the game. Surely there are one or two others in the group who also understand and respect these things.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately, this is not the case.

[ QUOTE ]
Just gotta suck it up this time, but try to get it hammered out for next time. It's the host's responsibility, not yours, and the host can decide how best to handle it for his/her game.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, but the host being away from the table made it difficult.

[ QUOTE ]
In the future, don't go screaming about angles and being on the level, etc. Most of these people are not trying to scame you. Your statements will do nothing to affect the angle-shooters, but a lot to scare away the fish.

[/ QUOTE ]

This paragraph rings very true. One player at the table, the most notorious angle-shooter I know, was also the most vocal about the card staying put. He had flopped top two pair, and he didn't see any way the 3 could have helped me. In the future, I know to not to even make the slightest hint of an accusation of cheating unless I know for sure that cheating is occuring.

I think if this happens again, I'll just mention the correct procedure. If I get shot down, and there is no floor to call, I'll just fold.

Thanks for your post.

[BJK]

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You should have then said, "Okay. Your game. Your rules."


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Hmm...I'm thinking I should have said, "Okay. Your game. Your rules. I raise."

[AngusThermopyle]

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[ QUOTE ]

You should have then said, "Okay. Your game. Your rules."


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Hmm...I'm thinking I should have said, "Okay. Your game. Your rules. I raise."

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No. It is still the flop betting. Smooth call and raise the 'turn'. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[AngusThermopyle]

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I agree with Agnus.

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[img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

[pfapfap]

Sorry. Dyslexia rears its ugly head.