LOLIDONKEDU

[danzasmack]

Oh I also cap pf though. I get 3-bet like 95%* of the time i raise so i have to take a stand somewhere hollller.

*this is an exageration but i find that lately a lot of tags spew-bet vs. me

[Grisgra]

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I thought this was an inventive way to play this hand. It's become super fashionable these days (at least on absolute) to raise/fold this turn with small pairs and showdownable ace-high hands.

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It's probably close, but given your read I think it's impossible to call this a bad line. I think this is a great way to annoy the hell out of the free-showdown folks, as well as get value out of the occasional bluff-raise from the busted draw on the river.

Of course, against a monkey like that . . . I'd like to hear your thoughts on just manning up and 3-betting this turn. If you put them on TT or A9 or a weak queen or something like that, they very well might call your turn 3bet, and call a non-spade-or-heart river because they put you on a 20%+ chance of a turn 3-bet semibluff with hearts, spades, JT, or whatever.

[vmacosta]

I would have 3-bet the turn. Not sure why you think AA/KK would auto-cap (though admittedly they might raise the river after the board pairs).

[ILOVEPOKER929]

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Very bad pointless river bet.

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Dont you think that's a little harsh?

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I dont think so. All this bet does is stop a bluff and potentially get owned by a better hand since im sure youre not bet/folding. If the villain has a lesser made hand he will usually bet the river for you so in most cases check/calling makes the same as betting when you have the best hand.

Basically when you bet the river you are attacking a very small range of made hands that wont bet the river but will call a bet. Trust me when I tell you that attacking this small range is not worth the trouble. Put another way, you will lose more money becuz of the bad things that can happen when you bet the river than you will make when something good happens.

BTW, I dont care about the results of this hand.

[donger]

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Oh I also cap pf though. I get 3-bet like 95%* of the time i raise so i have to take a stand somewhere hollller.

*this is an exageration but i find that lately a lot of tags spew-bet vs. me

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Yeah, i have been toying with smooth calling these types of hands vs a semiloose 3-bettor if the blinds dump. It kind of obfuscates your hand, sets up a CR if you want one, and makes calling down more profitable (he's more likely to keep firing with a worse hand)

[donger]

I respect your opinion and think you're a good poster, but I think we just have to agree to disagree here. I think the range of crap that he's willing to call with that he won't bet is > the range of worse hands that he bluffs, and I can occasionally induce a bluff raise here. This could boil down to game/site conditions. Nobody on AP ever folds here, like sometimes even KJ 8th levels it and calls the river donk.

[secret.asian.man]

I think the reason that it is bad is because the majority of hands he will have are either

a) hands that are ahead and raise (this is a very safe river and it will be easy for KK to raise)

or

b) hands you beat that he will bet for you anyway

The only time your donk is the right play is when he has a free showdown hand like 66. Do you honestly think that's what he has over 50% of the time, w/out any read?

[secret.asian.man]

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Oh I also cap pf though. I get 3-bet like 95%* of the time i raise so i have to take a stand somewhere hollller.

*this is an exageration but i find that lately a lot of tags spew-bet vs. me

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Yeah, i have been toying with smooth calling these types of hands vs a semiloose 3-bettor if the blinds dump. It kind of obfuscates your hand, sets up a CR if you want one, and makes calling down more profitable (he's more likely to keep firing with a worse hand)

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How does it obfuscate your hand? You think ppl will not put you on AQ because you didn't cap? MOST people don't cap AQ so you'd be obfuscating your hand by capping.

[Gildwulf]

Cap preflop for value and initiative.

The line that will get the most value out of an aggressive player like this is a turn value 3bet. He will be semibluffing a draw on this insanely drawy board a good chunk of the time, and may be "slowplaying" a hand like KQ, QJs, etc. If he caps c/c river.

[donger]

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Cap preflop for value and initiative.

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Can you explain why this is good? I get the value part, but is initiative that good out of position? I plan on showing this down a lot, i'm way ahead of his range, so don't I want to take lines that induce him to keep betting worse hands?

RE: playing AK/Q facing heat OOP, I've just been thinking a lot about the posts stellarwind made a while back where he talks about never 3-betting from the BB.