Official Full Tilt Poker Response to Bot Thread

[dp13368]

Hey FTP,

Look @ stars bonus' + even more FPPs = more rakeback than FTP, not to mention your support lacks even remote common sense. Stars support FTW

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/prom...25DepositBonus


Bye FTP have fun processing my cashout requests over the next few weeks.

You just lost $10k/month MGR.

HELLoooooooooo Stars!

[Weatherhead03]

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Wow. [censored] FT.

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[DrewOnTilt]

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A month from now, I really don't feel like reading complaints about how they don't come here anymore.


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If that happens, I can give the complainers a link to a corporate-speak-gibberish generator, so they can get their full dose of FTP GEORGE PAUL AND RINGO.

Here is a sample:

"Yes, we understand your concern with the missing FTP REP posts. We are working on a solution to this issue. Just this morning a meeting of all the high decision makers was held. Possible avenues of a seamless approach to solve this important issue were explored in detail. We will be sure to keep you up to date with any important developments as soon as possible. Thank you for your continued patience."

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Hell, here's a link right here:

http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/ga...eer/bin/ms.cgi

[Sniper]

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FTPSean, if you know anything about stats, I can show you tests proving (to the furthest extent I can) that there is no way these users cannot be bots.

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Can your stats differentiate between BOTs and Humans w/ Decision Support Software?

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The results I'm getting make it very unlikely humans had more than a tiny impact on the hands these users played (in other words bots played almost every single hand).


For example, let's say I test Ho: p1 = p2 vs. Ha: p1 != p2, and I want to compare vpip of 1forthethumb to full_tilting.

Using a two sample test for proportions, we get a test statistic of -.00005! This means it's pretty much impossible to reject Ho, that the vpip for the two players is the same. I think you will find similar results comparing pfr, betting, raising, cbets, etc.

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You didn't answer my question...

Players using the same Decision Support Software Profile would be expected to have converging stats over a large enough sample size. How can the stats alone determine if a human or a bot was actually pushing the buttons?

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That's more of a practical concern, I find it unlikely they all sat in a room pressing the same buttons for every type of situation.

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And if they are pressing the same buttons in the same situations, because the same decision support software profile (that seems to be allowed by the sites) tells them to push the same buttons?...

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Do you honestly believe that a human could stick by some decision support software for 400K hands and not deviate from it at all? Doesn't seem like human nature to me. Even if they deviated from this software for only 1 or 2 hands per 100 it would create anomaly's in some of the high deviation stats...

While I understand your thinking, I dont think its logical or even possible.

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If I paid you to sit there and do what the software told you to do, could you do it? (Ignore, would you, for purposes of the question)

fwiw, over time I would expect misclicks to be minimized.

[BigF]

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Serious post time:

Anyone who thinks that nlnut isn't using bots is either stupid, ignorant, or doesn't understand poker very well. It's obvious he's using a bot...or his team is using bots.

How can someone seriously argue that those post flop stats are "based off of a secret strategy"...give me a break.

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LOL.

Bots follow a set of rules -> similar post flop stats.
Grinders follow a set of rules -> similar post flop stats. Impossible! Must be bots!!!! Human players can't possibly do that!!!!!!!!!

Why not? Please enlighten me, Mr. "understand poker very well", why not?

[DrNo888]

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So you honestly believe that the whole one month investigation and account freezing was just a facade?

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Wasn't the investigation triggered due to nlnut making a lot of money transfer?
I doubt FTP did any kind of investigation for bots or automated software. At least not the one they did during March/April.

[APerfect10]

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If I paid you to sit there and do what the software told you to do, could you do it? (Ignore, would you, for purposes of the question)

fwiw, over time I would expect misclicks to be minimized.

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Well they werent being paid to sit there and make clicks; at least that is what we are being told. They are playing with their own money on their own accounts. A little different IMHO.

I'm not talking misclicks. I'm talking about where they have the nut flush and the river pairs board. Opponent pushes all-in. Strategically their rules say to fold. But they have a gut feeling and really think the guy is full of it so they decide to call. Do really think they NEVER do this because they follow the rule set 100%? IMHO, it seems rather hard to believe.

[Mackerel]

I am now officially done with FTP

[_dave_]

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If I paid you to sit there and do what the software told you to do, could you do it? (Ignore, would you, for purposes of the question)

fwiw, over time I would expect misclicks to be minimized.

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Well they werent being paid to sit there and make clicks; at least that is what we are being told. They are playing with their own money on their own accounts. A little different IMHO.

I'm not talking misclicks. I'm talking about where they have the nut flush and the river pairs board. Opponent pushes all-in. Strategically their rules say to fold. But they have a gut feeling and really think the guy is full of it so they decide to call. Do really think they NEVER do this because they follow the rule set 100%? IMHO, it seems rather hard to believe.

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AP10, while they were indeed not being paid an hourly to click, it was not far off.

The scenario suggested was that all wins/losses/rakeback across all accounts was pooled and profits distributed equally to reduce the effect of variance on the individual incomes.

The moniker of "sweatshop" stereotypes a scenario with one slavedriver reaping the profits while the workers toil for a minimum wage - this is not the suggested case here, although given the quantity of OMG BOT! OMG SWEATSHOP! posts it is easy to have missed this detail.

Given this - going with a "gut feeling and really think the guy is full of it" read - great if successful, but if not - face the wrath of the other grinders following "the system" for costing them all $$ by deviating of his own accord.

Now obviously this is a weird situation to imagine... but if you were a losing player, recruited by/joined a so called "sweatshop" and were suddenly banking a steady earn from minimal winrate + decent RB, surely you can understand why a drone would think "OMG this LAG is so FOS, no way he has a boat!!! but "system" says fold, I fold, ho-hum, on to the next hand"

Thoughts?

dave.

[burningyen]

I vowed never to put any money back into FTP after the account hacking scandal. It's good to see that I still don't need to bother.